Thanks so much to Fabrice for the interview! I wrote about River, a superb indiepop project from Nantes, France, time ago on the blog. A few months ago he got in touch and shared with me some new music. It was nice to hear from Fabrice and listen to a bunch of new recordings he had made, especially some very nice covers of Sarah Records classic songs. It was a great opportunity of course for me to find out more and pointed him that I had written about River and I was very interested in doing an interview. Happily Fabrice said yes and here it is the complete interview. Great answers, with lots of details, I have enjoyed this one very much! Hope you do too!
++ Hi Fabrice! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?
Hi Roque ! I’m fine, happy with my family, my children are growing, my work as history and geography teacher make me busy but I’m ok and music is always for me my only method to fight against the deep pessimism which is always inside me. So I continue to write songs to believe and live happily until death.
++ You just recorded a bunch of Sarah covers. I was wondering how important was this legendary label for you?
I will always have a deep, fundamental, and very personal relationship with Sarah records. It’s linked with a very particular and intimate moment of my life.I was getting divorced, my soul was on fire and I was flooding the ground of my solitary walks with my salty tears and, at the same time, I discovered this new universe. I remember very well, I was in a Nantes record store called Tacoma and I was listening to stuff like Depeche Mode, Dead can dance or Front 242, I heard “when morning comes to town” field mice… I suddenly stopped in the middle of the store,went to see a friend who worked there and asked him “but what’s that sound???” . It was a revelation. I bought the field mice album, then everything that came out of the label…. 🙂
It was at this precise moment that I met Pierre Antoine Delpino, the boss of the Plastic pancake label and that alone, or with him and other friends, I sailed between France and England, discovering the performances of Heavenly and Field Mice. I subscribed to Sarah’s newsletters and met Keith. Blueboy’s Keith Girdler. He became a friend and was the first to listen to River’s early trials. It was him who encouraged me to make my music. I owe him everything.
I saw Brighter, Heavenly, Blueboy (obviously). Keith sent me photos of their concerts, I have concerts of them on old cassettes that he sent me… It was in this difficult period a ray of sunshine. Somehow the music of Sarah Records saved me from depression.
I attended the last concert of the label after the Sarah 100 in Bristol with Pierre Antoine, his boyfriend and a great girl called Anne Claire and with whom we did a few songs and a little way together 🙂
It seemed useful to me today to pay tribute to these people whom I met and who saved me. So with my friend Jocelyn who helps me in the production of these songs, I tried to put my heart…
++ So I take River is still very active! What can people expect in the near future from you?
I would love to see these songs considered good enough by a label to release them. It would be a dream to see my tribute materialize in this way. Unfortunately, today I don’t really have any real networks to help people discover these songs. So, I took advantage of our exchange to make a call 🙂
Otherwise, I will continue River indeed. FOREVER !!! I have a lot of new songs to play but, again, I don’t know who to send them to. It’s very frustrating and sad for me. I don’t know anymore, at 53 y.o, if there are still pop labels that would listen to what I do… 🙂
++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?
I think my earliest musical memory dates back to the late 70s.It’s the discovery of Leonard Cohen with my father. I was 11 or 12 years old and the magnetic beauty of the melodies, the (apparent) simplicity of the arrangements marked me a lot. Then it’s 1984 and the purchase of my first 7″ inch…
I was very excited to hold in my hands the sound of these four guys from Basildon that I had discovered through a clip on TV. Depeche Mode came into my life never to leave again. At home, we listened to a lot of “weird” bands which became references for me and which I still listen to. Dead can dance, Clan of Xymox, Laibach, Kraftwerk but also EBM (Electronic body Music) bands like Front 242 or Skinny puppy…And then there was the parents’ music, The Beatles, Simon & Garfunkel, the doors , the Velvet…classical music within particular the baroque music of Purcell or Handel…I really grew up in a very… heterogeneous and baroque musical universe… 🙂
My first “instrument” was the discovery of my voice. It was a bit magical. My brother taught me some guitar chords, I bought myself a keyboard in 1992. River was born 🙂
++ Had you been in other bands before River?
I played in two groups before embarking on the River project. My very first group was called “Alan’s book”. It was a rock/cold combo that allowed me to do my first concerts but above all to meet great people who are still friends today when I got kicked out of the band :)) I was too ” bourgeois”, I didn’t drink alcohol and I refused to consume illegal stuff…:)) And then I joined a noisy pop/Shoegaze/dream pop group called “Nos étés Trop Courts” (“Our Too Short Summers”). I discovered My bloody Valentine, Ride, Pale saints, Swervedriver and even if the experience was short, we did some nice concerts…very…noisy :))
If in the first group I tried to sing like Dave Gahan, the singer of Depeche Mode, the second showed me that I could go higher in harmonies. It prepared River in a way.
Like I said before, I got kicked out of the first band and they continued without me…but never released anything after that…just like the second band…We were just kids playing in the back of a garage and who thought they could reach heights… It was fun.
++ Where were you from originally?
I am from Nantes on the Atlantic coast of France. It is a city that I love deeply. She is undoubtedly a source of inspiration for me. I’m very close to the sea (about 45 minutes), my parents also live on the coast and every time I finish songs, I like to walk on the beach, headphones screwed on my ears. It is a city with an industrial past which has a strong cultural activity. Come when you want, I will welcome you with pleasure!
++ How was Nantes during the heyday of River? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?
I’ve never really followed bands from Nantes, even though the musical activity there is quite intense.
There are artists however that I like like the little rabbits, Dominique A or Philippe Katerine. When I was young, there were great music stores (Tacoma, Fuzz…). It’s like concert halls… there were, until the turn of the 2000s, mythical places. There was “l’Olympic” which was THE Nantes concert hall where I was able to see Pulp, Blur, Suede, The divine comedy, Radiohead, Lush…And then there was a nightclub called “Le Floride” and which had the particularity of playing only “alternative” music, from cold to metal, from indie to twee. This is where I first met Keith from Blueboy. He was playing with Harvey Williams and the orchids in this tiny space…I sang “Self portrait” with them on stage there…it was amazing!
Today everything is standardized, soulless. There’s a great concert hall called the “Stereolux”, Le Floride still exists but only goes gothic or metal. I don’t go there anymore…and besides, I’m too old… :))
++ Was it always a solo project? Did you ever had other people being part of the band?
It’s very complicated. River is a “one man band” who dreams of working with others 🙂
I wish someone would write to me one day and say: “I would like to be part of River!!!!” your universe inspires me!!! I’m a singer, guitarist, bassist, keyboardist, cellist and I want to create with you!!!” but I’ve never had this type of meeting :))
Even with the distance I could share River… But hey, that never happened. For some tracks on the Shelflife album, musicians intervened but that’s it. It wasn’t until Moon & River that I composed with someone…and it was great…I loved it…at the same time, being alone gives me the freedom to do what I want, when I want and I confess that the egos of band musicians annoy me a lot so, with River, I am both the megalomaniac singer, the tortured guitarist, the funny keyboardist… that’s fine with me… :)) or not..
++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?
When you are alone in a musical project, you need a space that looks like you and that inspires your musical project. So I set up a room at home which is my lair, my cave…
Apart from the instruments I own, I installed “my universe” there. My children’s toys, my collection of lamps from the 70s, my records, my CDs, my collection of old Apple computers :)). It’s a very “private” place, always super tidy (I’m a bit of a cleanliness and tidying fanatic), very often plunged into darkness…with indirect lights… I compose like a vampire. ..Actually River is a bit gothic :))
Since the beginning of River, the creative process has always been the same. It’s even scary 🙂 But I think there are a lot of myths and mythomania about the “creation process”…we all do the same, but sometimes you have to invent a mythology of creation…which I will say is not particularly innovative 🙂
Throughout the year, and as inspiration and life events arise, I write texts that I put away in a black pocket. Then when I decide to create something, I always start with a guitar/voice or piano/voice version. Then the contours of the atmosphere take shape and I start recording…I spend an infinite amount of time on sound today, something I didn’t do when the adventure started (you could hear it:) ). It must be said that the technical means are no longer the same. I often look at the 4 tracks on which I recorded the first songs. But at the time, there was a DIY cult, so we did what we could, with what we had. Today, I work on Imac and the sound coming out of my monitoring speakers is just sublime..
The last step is the voice. I have to be alone at home, which is rare. Especially since I can only sing with one (or two, or three…) glasses of a heavily peated whiskey 🙂 and I only sing at night…As you can imagine, the situation of “voice recording” is quite rare when you work and you have a family. This is the reason why I always leave for 10 days in July with friends who go on vacation at that time and for whom I “watch” the house 🙂 So there, I relocate my studio and I record all my voices, redo the arrangements…I’m in the middle of the countryside, in the middle of nowhere, and I go to bed…very late…
++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?
This is again a tribute to my friend Keith and his Blueboy band. They had just released this title that I love on Sarah records and I liked the idea of this river which can at the same time be a charming place where you have a good time with your friends, it can be very romantic but it t is also the place of torment, of overflowing, of a form of violence that engulfs everything. River’s music is often interpreted as nice pop songs but if you pay attention to the composition or the strongly erotic content of the lyrics you can be surprised. There is always sex and a form of violence in the lyrics or in the musical creation. At least the tension.
++ You have quite an important discography, releasing many records. But I have never heard or seen the “Happiness & Smiles” CD. Can you tell me more about this release? Was it an album? A single? Who put it out? What year was it released?
Yes…too many titles and too many releases…right and left…I often regret it. Many titles are not very good and especially poorly produced. I just wanted to release my first self-produced songs…:) So I contacted a friend who had a recording studio at his house to make me a CD. Stéphane and I spent three months recording “Happiness & Smiles” and I think there are only two in the world… :))) I own one and Keith Girdler had one. We finished it in the summer of 96 I believe.Anyway, I was very proud. And the songs are good. Well I think 🙂
++ In 1998 you release “The Hairdresser” 7″ on the French label Plastic Pancake. How did you end up working with this label? How was your relationship with them?
The consecration for me. I cried so much when I received the disc. Someone trusted me. Pierre Antoine Delpino, the label boss contacted me and we became real friends. He was someone of exceptional sensitivity. He lived in Montauban in the South of France and for the first time I met people who listened to the music I discovered. He created a label which, for me, is a reference of the time. He had a real taste for beautiful things and his pop aesthetic corresponded completely to my universe. We spent many evenings together, we went to England together, we did a road trip to attend the SARAH 100 concert in Bristol and we met the whole twee pop community there. I owe a lot to “Pitou” (Pierre Antoine). I lost sight of him today and would love to find him again.
++ On the song “Happy Summer Nights” there are female vocals by someone called Sophie. Who is she? Was she in another band?
When I separated from my ex-wife, I went through a troubled period where I had a lot of experiences of different kinds. I walked the streets for a long time at night. I think I’ve become a little schizophrenic. I met many people, and one evening, I stopped in a bar to listen to a duo of musicians. Jean Charles (who would become my partner in “Moon & River” :)) and Sophie, his wife, sang pretty folk songs with two voices. We had drinks and I proposed to Sophie to do the 2nd voice on HSN…Alcohol helping, her husband agreeing…we recorded the next day…even though we weren’t did not know the day before :)). They continued to play together. They started a rock band that had some success called “Candle”…then they broke up, both in town and on stage. I never saw Sophie again.
++ Lighthouse Cassettes, a US label, released a tape called “Venus”with 8 songs in 1998 too. I have never heard of this label before if I’m honest. Who were behind it? Where were they located? How did they find about you, being so far in France?
That was what was amazing with the period of the late 90s. Overnight I received letters from different parts of the world, from people I didn’t know at all. :)) It seemed magic. People were writing to me. People were talking to me about “Plastic pancake”, people were telling me that people had heard songs from River….I’ve never met 99% of the people who have released songs from River :)) ).
There was at that time a form of effervescence in the creation “twee / Indie” which was incredible. We said we were in agreement and a few weeks we received about twenty hand-made audio cassettes…and that was it :)))
++ Another US label would also start collaborating soon enough, in 1999 Shelflife Records releases “Poseidon’s Girlfriend” 7″. I am again curious how did you end up working with Ed? And also did you ever get to travel to the US and meet?
I was talking earlier about “Plastic Pancake” but meeting Ed Mazzuco from Shelflife is probably the most surprising and incredible. When I had about thirty songs available, I “flooded” the Indie pop market :))
I had discovered the label with bands like “The Arrogants” and I was crazy about this label, its aesthetic… And one day I received this incredible mark of confidence. I knew that this label was very “elitist” and devoid of any real openness to styles other than Indie pop. However, it did not seem to me that my music could correspond to their expectations but it was like a dream. “What if one day I released an album on Shelflife???” The 7″ inch that I released on Shelflife was important because first it was on Shelflife and then because it was the moment when I wrote the first song on the one who still shares my life today and who is the mother of my two boys. Why “Poseidon’s Girlfriend”? …simply because I have a wife who swims five times a week and who is a mermaid who has to deal with water and ocean which is extraordinary. She was and is Poseidon’s girlfriend. Just after that, Ed sent me a list of 20 songs he wanted to release!!! shock ! It took me two weeks to recover…and the story doesn’t end there…He offered me to come and promote in the United States! So I went to the west coast, I played in Sacramento with the Arrogants…I sang one of their songs, they covered HSN with me… I played in a house facing the pacific and people were singing my songs !!! 🙂 me a little French! I landed in Los Angeles where customs held all my instruments, my suitcase…I had to buy new clothes, and I found my instrument two days before the first concert :)) ) It was an incredible experience for me! Unfortunately the story did not end very well. At the release of the album, all the titles of the album were upside down! none of the titles correspond to the original order…. I was furious! but that’s the story! Do not refer to the titles indicated on the cover. Disappointing for such a label! Nothing has been done to rectify this mistake! I’ve sent many songs to Ed since then but I believe this album will only be a “one-shot” and I regret it. It’s a pity that some labels haven’t evolved for thirty years. The music and the composition evolves. Indie pop remains in a form of sectarianism that I deplore, but I owe him a lot and would always be grateful to him. The cover is very nice too. No additional comments….
++ Plastic Pancake also released a 7″ of yours in 1999 that had a song called “Spiderman” on it. I guess you are a big fan of comic books? Is Spiderman your fave or is it another one?
That’s a fun question! I love Spiderman for his naivety, his stupidity and his “kitsch” side. It was really my state of mind at the time. I found myself a bit ridiculous sometimes with my “high-pitched” voice and my keyboard programming… Now that I’m getting older and I’m still interested in Marvel heroes, I admit that the darker side of Batman interests me much more. When is a Batman song? :)))
++ You also worked with the Italian label Best Kept Secret on a cassette album called “Once Upon a Time”. One thing I start to notice is that some of your albums include a lot of songs normally. Most bands like to keep it to 10, 12 songs max, but you had no problem to have 20+ songs. What was the thinking behind that?
This is an essential question. As I told you before, it’s very complicated. There was a time when a lot of people were interested in what I was doing and seemed very interested in what I was doing. And in fact, I don’t want to hide it, I was very proud of it.
It was very egocentric, almost egotistical. People asked me what I was doing if I had unreleased songs, if I agreed to release them… and it’s true that I was composing a lot at the time. So I was so complexed by my lack of talent (objectively) that knowing that my songs could be released somewhere touched me very sincerely. Was I aware that not all the tracks were very good, not very well produced? I just knew that I wanted to write songs, that I liked their style and that they all meant something strong to me…So I accepted…probably too much…One last thing…I’m so afraid of death and what I’ll leave after all this that I tell myself that my children will have a “consequent” trace of what their father may have done during his life. Sorry for this somewhat “psychological” outpouring. Maybe one day people I don’t know yet and who will be my descendants will listen to the tapes of Best Kept Secret or Blackbean & Placenta :))) It’s a very small trace that I want to leave for them.
++ In 2000 you release yet another album and yet another label, Blackbean and Placenta Tape Club. “…Is the Postman” includes some interesting song titles like “Brasilia”, “Juliette” or “River’s Song”. Curious what’s the story behind them?
You are asking me a question that I will only answer very partially. These three songs are arguably the most personal songs I’ve ever written “back then”. I wanted to write about three women who had marked my existence and I wrote lyrics that mean nothing, except for me..:)) The background is serious but I wanted to have the “kitsch” side offered by my short stories musical experimentations…I like this album with its badly produced side but it was the first time that for a majority of songs I tried the more “electropop” side of River”…and listening to it again always makes me to dance… :))
++ That same year your work with yet another label, Safari, on the “Strawberry Lipstick” 7″. This time it is a French label, closer to home. I have one record by this label, but I have no idea about who was behind or anything at all about them. Care telling me a little bit about them?
Matt & Noémie Hansen are great friends. Even though we don’t see each other anymore (they live in California), we keep an affectionate and essential contact for me. I think they released two references on “Safari”. Like “Plastic Pancake”, aesthetics are essential for them and I am aware of the gift they gave me by offering me to release this piece of electropop, which I still play today in concert :)).
They were both at the beginning of the 2000s the “encyclopedias” of Indie pop ” in Paris… They were people who knew all the groups, who welcomed them into their homes, who presented them to us… I met ‘They Go Boom‘, La Buena Vida’, ‘Le Mans’, ‘Watoo Watoo‘, ‘Caramel’, ‘Gypsophile’ thanks to them…
They are great people!
++ 2002 sees two more releases, the “Street of Desire” 7″ on Plastic Pancake and the self-titled album on Shelflife. One thing I start to wonder is how did the recording process work for you? Did you record everything by yourself? Did you work with a producer?
A very short answer: I always produced everything by myself on my 4 tracks 🙂 you can hear it sometimes… For the Shelflife album, the tracks were sent to the “head” producer of the label who cleaned everything up and offered some arrangements… I didn’t have much money at the time, hence my sincere surprise at such a “success”:))) (Irony)
++ Also wondering about the language of your songs. Correct me if I’m wrong, but most of your songs are in English though there are some that are in French. How did that work for you? When was a song written in English and when in French? Was it a conscious decision?
English imposes itself on me immediately. The fluidity of your language, the beauty of certain words and certain pronunciations and the “hype” side of the Frenchy who sings in English… everything is there! :))) More seriously my shyness and the fact that I can hide from my French listeners the brutality or the perversion of certain lyrics did me a good service…:)) now I don’t forbid myself to write in my language native…I do it today more and more but, at the time it was too difficult for me…Don’t forget that at the time RIVER wanted to conquer the world :)))
++ “Music for Top Models” was your last release as far as I know. This was a 2003 album on the German label Meller Welle Produkte. At this point you had worked with French, American, Italian, and Japanese labels. Was there any other contribution to another label from another country that I’m missing? Why do you think your music got to be so international? You put out so many songs, many records, that I wonder what do you think is missing for the band? And did you get any interest from other labels that for a reason or another didn’t happen?
I think at the time there was a real Indie pop community. It doesn’t really exist today. It must be so difficult to find the time to contact bands, to find out and, as I said before, a lot of labels don’t take a lot of “risks” anymore. We’ve all aged :)) and I think that people who take care of a label also have their family and professional life to manage…and it’s not an easy task.I would have loved to work with the Spanish labels that were so active (Siesta is probably my favorite label with Sarah). It didn’t happen but I think my music was too “DIY” and not produced enough, “clean”. It was popular in the first sense of the word but not “professional” enough. And the fact of being only a little guy all alone in his corner, without a group and without big means of production, it was not easy.
++ I think I can guess what the answer might be, but are there more unreleased songs by River?
Last summer, I put away my hard drive and I did the count: I wrote 559 songs from 1994 to today :)). I still have a lot of songs that will probably never be released. It’s a shame because if some are not really good, others really upset me and above all are much better produced. I gradually invested in professional equipment, I practiced English professionally and artistically, I worked a lot on my voice and composition. Now, I am open to all proposals and I would have to find people interested in listening to the selections that I could send. This is the big problem! :)) Help!
++ My favourite song of yours is “Happy Summer Nights”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?
It’s also one of my favorites. It’s probably the first song I wrote for River. I was alone in a café in Nantes. My life was taking a boost. After a long dark period, I had just met my new partner and I tried to bring together both what I observed in this bar and the first love emotions I experienced with Anika, my Berliner who was to become the wife of my life. She was a German assistant in my high school and she had gone back to Germany…I was very sad…and then she came back and we’ve been together for 27 years…:))
++ If you were to choose your favorite River song, which one would that be and why?
This is a really, really difficult question. Compared to the time you are talking about in this interview, I would say “the hairdresser” because it was the one who made people dance during concerts… “the top model” because it’s really a hit that my French audience was singing at the top of their lungs or “Happy summer nights” because I consider it my twee song “par excellence” and it’s the first song I sang to Keith “Blueboy”… These three songs represent well my pop universes of the time… at the same time when I think of the song “Writing” and its funny clip… I tell myself that I sometimes have strokes of genius :))) in fact, you see I can’t answer you 🙂
++ What about gigs? Did you play many? And what were the best gigs in general that you remember? Any anecdotes you can share? And were there any bad ones?
Again, I have to distinguish the River period circa 1990/2000 and the current period. At the time, there were really incredible concerts, in Paris, Bordeaux, Rennes with my friends from Watoo Watoo, Gypsophile, Superflu. ..It was very pop, very “flower dresses”, striped t-shirts and bowl cuts :))) it was such a great universe…There was something very fresh, very naive…we were not afraid to dance, to laugh… Good for me it was still difficult to play in concert because all alone, I had to “juggle” so much between my keyboard, my drum machine, my guitars… It was quite stressful… My best memory of that time was a concert which was organized by my students in a huge room… and I found myself in front of the 1200 students of my high school… They were singing, dancing….it was incredible…And then there was Madoka, the president of the Japanese fan club of River who was there, Paul and Keith from Blueboy…….
Today I continue the concerts but i’m not alone. With Moon & River, we did wonderful concerts. In art museums, in private lofts, and many also in private homes who opened their gardens to us…It was very “flower power”…I regret that since we stopped with Moon. .. Horrible concerts? yes only one with Moon & River where we played at a market between a fishmonger and a butcher (the smell was terrible) and where we were scheduled from 1pm to 2pm….It was quite far from home and we didn’t have a single spectator :))) At the time I’m talking to you, I’m more on the composition of new songs and we have the project with Jocelyn to try to set up a real group…and come on! I’ll give you a scoop: it could be called “The Melancholic Men”…
++ There’s a moment when we don’t hear more from River. Probably around the early 2000s. What happened during that time until now?
I never stopped playing music but my two boys were born, my daughter was growing up and I wanted to spend time with my family.I got very involved in my job as a teacher…Life :)) And then there was “Moon & River” and these two albums that I find really magnificent. And that can be found on music platforms :))
Was there any interest from the radio? TV? What about the press? Did they give you any attention? What about fanzines?
Yes, I was lucky again! Through Madoka Fukushima in Japan and her fanzine “Quien” I was able to get a little visibility…And when the Moon & River albums came out, we were able to take part in many local radio shows which helped us always be well received… We did little acoustic sets… I really like the stress of the radio…
Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?
I’m 53 you know now so the family takes a lot of time…I’m a dad stressed by his children’s studies, like many :)) and we love going to the restaurant with my wife 🙂
Otherwise, I admit spending a lot of time on my job which is a vocation, an absolute passion. Music of course, at least one full day a week, I play tennis regularly and above all I have a blast playing badminton. I’m starting to have an interesting level. Otherwise, I’m part of a whiskey tasting club, my favorite drink :))
++ Had never been in Nantes soI’d love to ask a local. What do you suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?
Nantes is a magnificent city, rich in history and which has managed, a bit like Liverpool or Manchester, to keep its industrial heritage but by rehabilitating it. The fact that we are close to the sea means that we are turned towards the ocean and therefore we eat a lot of fish :)) which we accompany with fine quality white wines. We are also a region of vineyards, in particular with a wine called “Muscadet”. I launch here a very serious invitation: anyone who would come to France in my region would always be welcome at my place…
++ Anything else you’d like to add?
As I said, I am open to all proposals to discover my compositions. I dream of continuing the River adventure…I don’t know if there is a list of indie labels somewhere or if this interview will arouse some curiosity…in any case thank you from the bottom of my heart for giving me the opportunity to look back on this adventure…
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Listen
River – Happy Summer Nights
