Thanks so much to Colin Brown for the interview!! I wrote about the Liverpool band Personal Column some time ago in the blog! Happily Colin got in touch and was keen in answering all my questions about his great 80s band! Oh and they also have a website, so check it out!
++ Hi Colin! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Still making music?
How am I ? I am fine, recently retired and loving it. I stopped playing completely when Personal Column split though I have never stopped writing lyrics. I have recently started playing again, purely for enjoyment.
++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen at home while growing up?
My first musical memories are watching Ready Steady Go and Top Of The Pops on TV.
The first single I ever bought was You Were Made For Me by Freddie And The Dreamers and my first LP was A Hard Day’s Night by The Beatles.
My first instrument was an upright piano I had at home, as well as an electric guitar. The first keyboard I played in PC was a Casio which in those days was state of the art.
While growing up I listened to 60’s and 70’s pop, then went onto groups like Yes, Jethro Tull, and still my favourites to this day, Peter Gabriel era Genesis.
++ Had you been in other bands before Personal Column? What about the rest of the members? If so, how did all of these bands sound like? Are there any recordings?
I was never in a group before PC and never thought I would be. I was a lyricist who ended up playing in the band because we couldn’t find a keyboard player.
++ Where were you from originally?
I was born in Liverpool, as were everyone in PC.
++ How was Liverpool at the time of Personal Column? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?
Liverpool, when PC were active, was like most working class areas cured by unemployment, the miner’s strike and Margaret Thatcher.
Our favourite record shop to get the more obscure music we like, was Probe Records, which had a
good selection of punk and reggae and is well known because Pete Burns, the singer from Dead Or Alive, worked behind the counter there.
There were not many venues for bands to play in Liverpool. The best and most well knows was a
pub called The Masonic, which had bands on 7 nights a week and anyone who was anyone played there.
++ When and how did the band start? How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?
The band started when I put an advert in a music magazine for someone to put my lyrics to music and Marc got in touch because he only lived half a mile away.
We wrote songs for a couple of years and then decided to put a band together. Mike knew a bass
player, Mike Hayes who knew a drummer called Mike McCarroll and they both joined.
Just before the two Mike’s joined we rehearsed with another bass player called Marc O’Toole who left because he had too much college work to do, though a couple of years later he found fame and fortune in a group you might have heard of, Frankie Goes To Hollywood ?
++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?
The creative Process? I would give Marc a bunch of lyrics and he would look through then and pick the ones he liked and put music to them. Then we would get the band together and work out.which songs would sound good live.
We rehearsed at the main rehearsal rooms in Liverpool, The Ministry, most of the gigging bands rehearsed there including Teardrop Explodes, Echo And The Bunnymen and Black.
++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?
We were looking for a band name and one night Marc and I were having a writing session and during a break we noticed his girlfriend was reading a newspaper and was reading the personal column and we both liked that and now we had a name 🙂
++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?
Influences on the band? The Beatles, Squeeze, Elvis Costello, Steely Dan etc.
++ Your first two releases came out on Contrast Records. I was wondering if this was your own label? Or who were behind it? How was the experience of Contrast Records?
Contrast Records was our own label, run by Marc and me and our manager Royce. We started it because we couldn’t get any serious record company interest.
Contrast Records only released our first 2 singles and we didn’t release anything by any other bands.
++ Before releasing the first single, had you had any recording studio experience? Perhaps recording demo tapes?
Before recording and releasing our first single, Ignorance Is Bliss, we had a lot of experience in recording studios and recorded a lot of demos of various quality. I have a lot of demo and rehearsal tapes which will never see the light of day.
++ The art for the “Ignorance is Bliss?” 7″ is very simple and quite different to your next two releases. Who came up with it? Did you usually design your sleeves?
To be perfectly honest the art, if you can call it art 🙂 for the first single was Marc and my idea, we were running out of time before it was printed, ran out of money, and must have been in a drunken moment thought of the design, I think it is terrible and probably one of the worse sleeves ever 🙂
We did design the sleeve for the second single but had learnt from the first and the second sleeve, in my opinion is far better.
++ The next release is the wonderful “The Same Old Situation” 7″. At this point there had been some lineup changes. What had happened?
The line up changes had been coming fr a while, we were not that happy with Mike’s drumming and sacked him which was not a nice thing to do as he was a lovely guy.
We got Terry Sterling in and rehearsed like mad and played a week after, Mike the drummer came along and after the gig said he could now understand why we did it, and he remained a good friend.
We also recruited Rob Boardman who was a very experienced guitarist who had played in a few Liverpool groups, notably “The Jazz Babies” who recorded a superb session for John Peel.
++ How was the experience of working with Steve Power and at Pink Studios? What was a recording day like? Beer and pizza?
To be honest I cannot remember working at Pink Studios, although I know we did. Steve power was a lovely guy but I cannot remember that session at all sorry 🙁
Roque, of course, just remembered we recorded our second single with Steve Power in Pink but I just cannot remember anything about that session.
++ Lastly you would end up signing to Stiff Records to release your last single. How did they approach you? Were there any other labels interested in you? And how was working with them? Did it make a big difference for distribution and promotion?
Stiff Records boss Dave Robinson heard a Peel session, got in touch with out manager, we went down to see them about signing to them although no contract was offered.
Somehow we got railroaded into agreeing to record an album for Stiff in Coventry.
The day before we were due to start recording Royce got a phone call from the MD of CBS records, saying they wanted to sign us and offering us double anything that Stiff were offering.
We foolishly turned CBS down, which turned out to be our worse decision ever I think.
We recorded the album, which turned out to be terrible, the production was so bad, we refused to let them release the album.
They still said they wanted to sign us and put out the single Strictly Confidential which we were proud of but sadly became the first Stiff release not to get into the UK top 200 singles, for to number 205 I think.
Then our manager went to meet Stiff to sort out the contract and they had changed everything about it, so that was the end of them.
I guess their distribution was good, but not in our case their promotion was terrible, really I think they had lost interest in us, the only thig they did was get us on the German version of Top Of The Pops, “Formal Eins” which was a wonderful experience.
They had only pressed 10,000 copies of the single in Germany, which sold out in the week after our TV appearance but Stiff refused to press and more so that was the end of that 🙁
++ This last single was released in 7″ and 12″ formats. Was wondering what format do you normally prefer for singles? And how exciting was it to get international releases for this record in Spain, Netherlands and Germany? Did you end up going to these countries?
To be honest we didn’t even know that there had been 12” versions of Strictly Confidential released until many years later but apart from a promo copy of “Strictly Dancewise” I have never managed to track one down. I know the Spanish one had 4 versions on, 2 of which I have never heard.
++ The 12″ version was exclusive to Spain and it included a dub version and a long mix versions. Who made these and what was your take on them? Was that where your music was going?
Since I wrote the above I haver managed to buy a copy of the Spanish 12” which is great and have also bought a copy of an Australian 7” and I know there is a Dutch release and I am sure many more I don’t know about?
++ You recorded your first Peel Session in 1982. That must have been amazing. Who did you work with on the recording? How long did it take? Did you meet John Peel!?
Doing the first Peel session was great. I cannot remember which session it was but Dale Griffin, the ex drummer from Mott The Hoople produced one of our Peel sessions and he was a lovely guy and a great Producer. Recording the session started at 1pm and you had to record and mix the 4 tracks that day so it was pressurised but the results are great.
++ Then there was a second Peel Session and a Kid Jenssen Session. Which was your favourite session then? and why?
My favourite session was the first Peel one. We all went to our managers house on the night it was first broadcast and it was a magical night. Hearing John Peel say how much he loved our songs was magical, we never thought he would like our music because it was too poppy, luckily he did.
We met John Peel a few times and he was a genuinely lovely man. We did an interview for his show and I have a tape of it which I treasure.
++ I read that you signed a publishing deal with ATV music. Does this mean your songs were owned by Michael Jackson?!
Yes, our songs are now, or were, owned by Michael Jackson, so now I guess his estate owns them?
++ There was an album recorded for Stiff Records too, right? What happened to it? Why was it never released?
We did record an album for Stiff Records, we recorded it in Coventry but the results where terrible, the production was so bad we refused to have it released. With hindsight maybe it would have been better to let it be released, at least it would have raised our profile.
++ From what I’ve read there are more recordings by the band. Are there plans to release them?
We have very many recordings and there are no plans to release them, I honestly do not think there would be any interest in them, we are not exactly well known.
++ Have you ever thought of putting them together in a retrospective release?
Again we have never thought of putting them together in a retrospective release because there would not be enough interest in them.
++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Same Old Situation”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?
“The Same Old Situation” was inspired by the political unrest in the UK in the 80’s, with Thatcher as prime minister closing all the mines and destroying the unions. The same thing has happened to ordinary people since time begun have been exploited and used by the bosses/upper classes and the same old situation repeats endlessly and sadly always will. That is what inspired the song.
++ If you were to choose your favorite Personal Column song, which one would that be and why?
If I had to choose a favourite song it would have to be “Strictly Confidential” because Stiff flew us over to Munich to record a video for the German version of Top Of The Pops called Formal Eins and that was a highlight of our career. I also loved “A Woman’s Place” because a girl we knew said we could not write a song from a woman’s point of view and we wrote the song the next day.
++ What about gigs? Did you play many?
We played a lot of gigs in Liverpool and played quite a few Universities and Colleges around the country. We also played a lot of benefits for “Rock Against Racism.”
We also played at a festival in Switzerland, once in Zurich and once in Basle.
The Basle gig was one of the worse we ever played because when we got to the club we were playing in and were waiting to play there were a couple of men in there wearing full SS uniforms and with us having a black singer it was not a nice atmosphere, as soon as we had finished playing we got out of there as soon as we could.
++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?
In 1985, when the Live Aid concert was held at Wembley Stadium, There was a concert help at the Empire Theatre in Liverpool called Liver Aid which we played in. It was then the biggest venue in Liverpool and anyone who has ever acted or played in a band wanted to play there and it was an amazing experience. The highlight was when, as an encore, all the performers went on stage and sand Imagine. One of the best moments of my life.
++ And were there any bad ones?
Sure there were bad gigs, The Basle one was the worse but we had gigs, like one in Portsmouth University, which was a five hour drive from Liverpool. When we got there the promoters told us it was half term and we ended up playing in a massive hall to about 10 people which was no fun.
++ When and why did Personal Column stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?
Personal Column broke up because we were fed up of banging our heads against a wall and getting nowhere but releasing 3 singles and recording an album was an achievement and with hindsight we should have kept going but Marc and I had just lost our Publishing deal and we were deep in debt and couldn’t see any way forward.
To be honest our first couple of years were the best, when we signed our publishing deal with ATV Music we were put under a lot of pressure to write less political material and to my eternal shame we did try but really our, well certainly my, heart was not in it.
I kept on writing with Marc and he signed with Elektra Records and recorded an album, Too True, which sank without trace. An example of how stupid records companies are, the album was recorded at a cost of $500,000, and that is in 1985 but when the first single Let Them Stare was released a plugger said he could get it into the US top 20 for $10,000 and Elektra refused to pay saying they had spend enough. Madness.
++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?
The rest of the band continued playing in bands but none of note.
++ Has there been any Personal Column reunion?
Never been a Personal Column reunion, never really thought about it and to be realistic there would not be a great demand for one though Marc plays solo gigs these days and when he plays Personal Column songs they go down a storm.
++ Did you get much attention from the radio?
We did get a lot of radio plays. Strictly Confidential got into the BBC top 10 for radio plays but sadly that did not translate into sales.
++ On TV you appeared on Granada’s Exchange Flags. How was that? Did you appear in any other TV programmes?
The Granada Exchange Flags appearance came about when we got a call from Granada asking if we wanted to appear and of course we said yes. It went out live so it was a nerve wracking but enjoyable experience. After we finished I went into my local pub for a pint and as I walked in the whole pub applauded which was highly embarrassing.
We appeared on local TV a few times and of course on German TV.
++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?
We got a lot of gig and single reviews in local papers and in the NME and Melody Maker, we even got mentioned in Elvis Costello’s column in the Daily Mail, he said how much he loved our band which was great.
++ What about from fanzines?
There were 3 main fanzines in Liverpool in the early 80’s, One called “Breakout” another called “The End” which was written by members of a local group called “The Farm” and another called “The Garden Party”. We were regulars in all of them and I have copies, somewhere, of all of them.
++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?
Looking back it is hard to pick a highlight but if I could pick 3 they would be :
1 Releasing our first single, everyone who ever plays in a group wants to do that.
2 Playing at The Empire for “LiverAid”.
3 When Strictly Confidential was released, signing on for unemployment benefit on the Monday, flying first class to Munich on the Tuesday and staying at the Munich Hilton Hotel. Then on Wed going to a film studio on the black forest and recording the video for Strictly Confiderntial and then flying back to Liverpool in to get my unemployment benefit, now that was surreal.
++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?
What other hobbies do I have ? Well, all my life up to now and I guess forever music has been my obsession and first love.
I also love football and support 2 teams Everton FC and Tamworth FC.
I also play online chess a lot, I am not very good but I enjoy it.
I love reading as well, mainly books and magazines about music.
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