Thanks so much to Julian, Phil and Aggi for the interview! I had written about The Kennedy Pill many years ago. Suddenly about a month or so Julian got in touch, and I was quite surprised! I had to know more about this Leeds band that released just the one record on Native and whose sound was really great. I wanted to learn more details, what happened to them. Happily three of their members were keen in answering my questions, so here it is! Hope you all enjoy!
++ Hi all! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?
Julian: Hi Roque, Thanks I’m good – during the lockdowns I started to publish my music again just for fun – I have music on most platforms inc Spotify, iTunes and Bandcamp as 10 Jules.
Phil: I’m involved a bit. I’ve fairly recently got into using a computer to make music and I still play drums, occasionally recording something. It’s not my day job at the moment.
Aggi: Still play guitar but don’t produce anything, listen to lots like mixing and buying vinyl!
++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?
Julian: I remember my parents playing early Beatles and Simon and Garfunkel, but as a kid it was glam rock on Top of the Pops, Sweet Slade,T Rex and David Bowie that got me excited – until punk.
Phil: My parents were into opera and big bands like Glenn miller and Tommy Dorsey, the first music I liked for myself was punk really, partly introduced to me by my older sister and partly by cooler kids at school! I learnt to play the drums by listening to punk records and banging along on anything that was nearby!
Aggi: Parents had no influence but my brother got me listening to Deep Purple, ELO, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Japan, Teardrop explodes. The first band I saw were at school, they were terrible but the feeling of live music was amazing, First real band was Siouxsie and the Banshees at Gloucester Leisure Centre in 1983 (I think), loudest gig I’ve ever been to, louder than Motorhead at Leeds refectory! Then the Red Skins and Billy Bragg in Bristol, then watched live music every weekend in Bristol which was thriving but struggling to get out of jangle indie into drum and bass. Spent my 15-18 in the Moon club in Bristol in St Paul’s listening to sound system, reggae, ska obvious where the trip hop and drum and bass came from.
++ I read some of you had been in a band called The Flying Hendersons before being in The Kennedy Pill. Did you release anything under that name? How long were you active? Are there any recordings online?
Julian: I was in a few bands with best friend Steve Whitfield. We’d set up in Leeds in 1983. We played as an electronic/guitar/drum machine duo called Filming For India. The Flying Hendersons were a project that we formed with two friends, Robert Mills (drums) and Graham Charles (vocals). Steve produced most of the KP tracks and did the live sound from time to time.
https://youtu.be/FqWfhvXg95U?si=tms5_RznvWZLs1Fl and The Flying Hendersons – Electric Hands (1987)
The FH’s had been trying to form a band but had no real experience, so we basically showed them how to do it! We borrowed the drums from Phil who became the Kennedy Pill drummer. We made a couple for demos with Steve Whitfield playing bass and doing the recording and production, as he’d gone to music production school in Manchester.
(PHOTO: The Flying Hendersons in the cellar, that the Kennedy Pill also used in Leeds – Julian on guitar and Steve is on bass – He produced “Beside the Sea” and shot the cover photo.)
++ Aside from The Flying Hendersons and The Kennedy Pill, had you been in other bands before The Kennedy Pill? What about the other band members?
Julian: I’d been in bands in the North east with Steve, but the scene was challenging as the NME and Melody Maker had no interest in Teesside. It has a small indie scene, but it wasn’t like Liverpool or Manchester, so we had to move
Phil: I remember little of the Flying Hendersons, other than they were surprisingly good and they did a gig in Manchester that we all got a coach to(?) I may be remembering that bit wrongly. I was in bands in my hometown before I moved to Leeds, but we didn’t really trouble the charts or anything. We did once have a review that described us as ‘Joy Division playing Duran Duran’s basement tapes’, which I liked the sound of…
Aggi: yeah it started snowing and the coach driver left to get back to Leeds without me and Louise (now Mrs Brown), we walked the streets of Manchester until 6am when we got the first train back!
++ Where were you from originally?
Julian: Both Steve and I went to school in Saltburn by the Sea. I was born in Leeds and all my family grandparents and uncles and aunts were there, so it was very much my spiritual home. Steve did all the engineering and production work on the KP – he’s still very active having worked with the Cure, the Mission and Shed Seven.
Phil: Cardiff, home of musical luminaries, like Steve Strange, Green Gartside and the Demented Are Go! Also the Young Marble Giants. Cardiff’s proudest boast is that it is the home of The Oppressed, the founders of SHARP (Skinheads Against Racial Prejudice)
Aggi: Bristol: home of trip hop, drum and bass and stabbing! Had the highest incident of knife crime in the UK when I left 🙁
(PHOTO: From the same trip as the “Beside the Sea cover (think it was 1988!) We were on a trip back to Saltburn where Steve and Julian grew up and went to school.)
++ How was Leeds at the time of The Kennedy Pill? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?
Julian: What a great question!
So this was about 1987-1988 and Leeds was Goth central. I grew up on the Cure, Killing Joke and Joy Division and a lot of the Goth scene had its roots in those bands. At the time the big bands were the Sisters of Mercy, The Mission and then there was Southern Death Cult (to be the Cult) and New Model army. I enjoyed those bands but was less interested in the rocky aspects of their sounds! I was into The Cocteau Twins, the Wonderstuff, Jesus and Mary Chain, but I liked some poppier stuff like It’s Immaterial from Liverpool and the Blue Nile from Glasgow.
There were some great places to hang out in Leeds at the time – in 86 it was the Fav (the Faversham pub) it was literally like a who’s who of goth in there. We had the Phono in the Merrion Centre as a club as well as the Warehouse – Our local pubs were the Hyde park pub and the more grungier Royal Park pub – it was very much a student environment although I was on the dole until 86. That’s how I met the people that would become the Kennedy Pill.
Phil: Leeds was amazing! I first went there the year before I moved and saw Killing Joke on their Night Time tour and made up my mind to live there! It seemed like there were bands everywhere and all I’d ever wanted to do was play in a band so it felt like the place to go. There were loads of good bands, but it didn’t feel like there was Leeds ‘sound’. There were lots of bands doing their own thing, definitely a strong goth contingent but there were also bands like CUD and Pink Peg Slax and The Three Johns who weren’t alike. Chumbawamba were around then as well so there was a real diversity.
Aggi: Warehouse, Rickys, Duchess of York were great small band venues, we played them all. Really thriving scene with the Wedding Present, Cud, Pale Saints and Bridewell Taxis. We did a Leeds compilation with most of them https://www.discogs.com/master/557347-Various-Knowing-Where-It-All-Leeds. We used to practise in a studio in Holbeck run by Colin Dempsey, properly eccentric old goth that wore head scarf like a turban! He was good to us renting us gear for low cost and ferrying us and the gear around for beer. Bastard were our practice room mates, they were louder than Siouxsie and the banshees! Wonder what happened to them?
++ Were there any other good bands in your area?
Julian: Well – the Sisters, the Mission, Age of chance were also getting some recognition at the time.
Aggi: loads see previous answers.
++ How was the band put together? How was the recruiting process?
Julian: So my memory of it might differ to Phil and Aggi. The Hendersons were borrowing Phil’s drums and he wanted them back because he was involved in setting up a band with Pete Gibson (vocals), Alastair (Aggi guitar) and Mike Gillan (guitar) but there was no bass player! I think we might have been sharing some amps as well. Anyway I offered to fill the bass player role until they found someone. However, at the first rehearsal it was clear to me that whilst they were better musicians than me, they had very little experience at running rehearsals, collaborating on songs and general band organisation. I do remember though when we plugged everything in, things came together really quickly and I thought shit this is actually really fucking good – I am the bass player.
Aggi: Me and Pete started playing as we shared a house, got a few tunes together Mike replied to an add and Ju introduced as above. Phil knew Pete I think so got roped in.
Phil: I can’t remember how I got involved. It was definitely Pete, Agg and Mike when I joined but I think it might have been because my girlfriend was mates with Agg’s. My impression to start with was they were good players and had some decent songs, so I think we clicked pretty quickly. We did go up a gear when Jules joined though.
++ Was there any lineup changes?
Julian: Yes! a painful one for me – I had to leave as my girlfriend was pregnant and the band atmosphere was not conducive to bringing up a baby (serious understatement 😉 . So I remember we did the Stone Roses support in Sheffield and a gig at Leeds Warehouse was my last – it was a painful decision but I’m still with Sarah!
Phil: I remember when I first met Tor, it was at Mayville Ave, it was like trying to protect a child from a squat!
Aggi: I was gutted when Jules left. Ian was a great lad and a good player, but I felt like we really missed J’s input.
(PHOTO: Julian’s last gig with the Kennedy Pill at Leeds Warehouse 1989)
++ What instruments did each of you play in the band?
Pete Gibson – Vox
Phil Wakely – Drums
Alastair Brown – Guitar and van
Mike Gillan – Guitar
Julian Coultas – Bass
++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?
Julian: Well in the early days there were 2 methods. Pete would sometimes supply a whole song structure and lyrics and then we’d build our parts around it. Or we’d jam riffs and build a song that Pete would then record on a crappy tape recorder and then take it away and work out lyrics and vocal melodies. I was always very impressed with Pete’s ability to build a hook line, I think he was really talented when it came to melody.
Initially, we rehearsed in Pete and Alastair’s student house cellar, but it was cramped and we were always getting grief from the neighbours. We quickly moved to a proper band rehearsal studio on the south side of the city. We could leave all our gear there, but we were very poor, we had to walk and it took an age!
Phil: That’s pretty much how I remember it!
++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?
Julian: I think Phil came up with it? I liked it as I’m really into the Anglo American axis of underground music so it had a good vibe to me!
I was chatting to a mate in the pub in Cardiff and we were saying how a family near us, the Pill family were like Cardiff’s answer to the Kennedys (sort of like this high powered dynasty, not that repeatedly kept getting assassinated). I liked the sound of Kennedy Pill…it sounded like a pill you could take to make you successful, but at a terrible cost…
++ You worked with Native Records from Sheffield. I was wondering how did this relationship start? Did you send them a demo? Maybe they discovered your music at a gig of yours?
Aggi: Kevin started scouting at our gigs offered us a publishing deal, massively exciting times.
++ And how was the relationship with Kevin Donoghue? Did you like your time at Native? And also wondering, as Sheffield is quite close to Leeds, did you make that trip often?
Aggi: Not often but remember Steve Whitfield, our engineer and producer driving us there in his dads citroen. No one had a car back then!
++ Were there any other labels interested in your music? Perhaps big labels?
Aggi: Yeah we used to go to London with every demo and trawl them all. Virgin we interested and welcomed us warmly, and took us seriously. Stock Aitkin and Waterman were also very kind. I have a file full of rejection letters, but that was they way. Huge respect to Virgin and Pete Waterman for integrity and taking us seriously.
++ With Native you released the “Beside the Sea” 12″ in 1991. Were these brand new songs for the release or were they perhaps already part of demos you had recorded?
Aggi: Too old cant remember, I think beside the sea was new, we pondered doing Lucy Jones which was already demoed but went for Beside the sea
++ Where was the single recorded? Did you work with a producer? Did it take many days to record? Or was it quick?
Aggi: KGM in Wakefield, Ken Giles was a massive star, let us have two days for £100, it was a 24 track with Neave desk and amazing acoustics, KGM were a studio supplier and this was their demo studio. Writing this I’m realisng how many people helped and were wanting us to succeed. Moving really. Steve Whitfield produced and engineered.
++ Aside from the single the only other song that was released was “Fizz Pop” on a compilation called “Knowing Where it All Leeds”. This compilation came out as a CD and vinyl and was released by Stolen Records. Wondering who Stolen Records were. Care to tell me a bit about them and how you ended up in this record?
Aggi: We used to get Demo’s copied by a reproduction studio in Armley, cant remember the bloke that ran it but he was connected to Stolen Records and liked what we did.
++ On this compilation you appear next to superb Leeds bands including The Wedding Present, The Pale Saints and more. Wondering how tight-knit the Leeds scene was. Were you friends with many bands on this compilation? Or there was really no such scene?
Aggi: We were loosely connect to the other bands, everyone knew everyone and you’d bump into them everywhere but there wasn’t any clique. I used to know Cassandra Complex well through John Galvin, Steve was well connected wth Mick from the Sisters of Mercy, I worked on local crew in leeds so knew the promoters.
++ I found the name of at least five more unreleased tracks, “Wednesday”, “Sian”, “Please Don’t Go”, “Timothy Leary” and “Me Me You”. Where do these songs come from? Demo tapes? If so, how many demo tapes did you record? Is it possible to do a demo-graphy?
Julian: These recordings came from the early period. Steve Whitfield was learning his trade at NYRA a music recording school in Manchester – so experimental things like backwards reverb on vocals and playing around with feedback were thing that we were spending hours on!
++ Also wondering about the track “Timothy Leary”. Why did you dedicate a song to him?
Julian: Pete would be best placed to answer this.
++ Why weren’t there more releases by the band?
Julian: I’d be interested to know this myself!
Aggi: Lack of Cash! The disappointing reality is that it costs to be in a signed band, I realised I had to get a job when we were sharing one tea bag between 4…. That’s no exaggeration, I sold the shares I inherited from my Dads death to pay for the recording, we had no money but plenty of drive a little talent and a load of fun!
++ If you were to choose your favorite The Kennedy Pill song, which one would that be and why?
Aggi: Wednesday, Sian or maybe Timothy Leary.
Julian: Agree with Aggi’s choices and would add that I’d love to re-record ‘Always’ and go completely mental with it! In fact there’s a few songs I’d love to have another go at!
++ What about gigs? Did you play many?
Aggi: Loads and loads and loads, Leeds, Bradford, Sheffield, London, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Nottingham, Huddersfield, more I cant remember.
Julian: It’s hard to remember but I’d add to the list one we did in Kentish Town, I think, (not sure of the venue), I believe it was with the Hollow Men (although they may not have been called that at the time)
++ You supported The Stone Roses. Was it once or many times? What do you remember from those gigs?
Julian: I think it was Ian Brown’s birthday and they were in a really good mood and open for chatting about music and footie – this was before the first album was launched. There were about 300 people in the Octagon when we went on and about 1000 when they went on. I was just blown away. We played really well and I remember them saying “ well done lads” and I was wondering what they were going to sound like. I’d not heard any music. My girlfriend was from Manchester and she said they were good, but they were on another level. It was a sobering experience! They started with ”I wanna be adored” and I think it actually killed the Kennedy Pill, because we were in similar territory, but their sense of identity both sonically and visually was just so far ahead. The Madchester baggy thing kicked off and it was the end of the road for me in the band.
++ And what were the best gigs that you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?
Aggi: Best gig we played was at a little club in Leeds about 200 in low roof, Julian, can you remember, we went to the Duck and Drake first first, Andy Paynes lights. Russ’s PA and we sounded ace! Stone Roses was most memorable because of the headline.
++ And were there any bad ones?
Aggi: Of course, I don’t think we played badly but did play to one man and a dog, literally.
Julian: He’s not joking! I’m thinking that was somewhere like Wakefield, maybe…not that far from Leeds but just picked a bad night!
++ Tell me about your merch. I read you had red t-shirts with the band logo for sale. What other things did you make to sell to fans?
Aggi: Tie Die TShirts, Button Badges, tapes and vinyl
++ When and why did The Kennedy Pill stop making music? Were any of you involved in any other projects afterwards?
Aggi: After the line up with Ian (bass) stopped nothing got recorded.
++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?
Aggi: We were on the James Whale show and John Peel and One of the morning Radio One DJ’s used to play us, Never any TV
++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?
Aggi: Yes Lots, I still have the cuttings!
++ What about fanzines?
++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?
Aggi: Getting about the country in a transit van with your mates having a grin! For me the Stone Roses, Every recording and the Leeds gigs.
Julian: I’d agree with that Agg!
++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have? Leeds United fans?
Julian: I still make music under 10 Jules and I’m a 5 a side football junky.
Aggi: Mike was a good club runner at the time. Since the band I still play guitar lots and listen to alot of music, enjoy triathlon and more recently Brizialian Ju-Jitsu
++ I’ve never been to Leeds so I’d love to ask a local. What do you suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?
Julian: I was there at the weekend at Elland Road watching Leeds United.
Phil: The City is very different now, The Brudenell Social club is a great venue in the middle of LS6. I like ”the Social” it’s a nice bar in town frequented by many of Leeds’ current music bands.
Aggi: Leeds is ace just go. I live in Manchester now but my Daughter went to Leeds University and still lives there so I’ve been there lots in the last 10 years.
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