Thanks so much to John Furniss for the interview! I discovered the Sheffield band Mr. Morality late last year and wrote about them. They were an 80s band that toured with Pulp and had recorded many fantastic songs. Sadly none of their songs got properly released. Just a few years ago their song “Treehouse” ended up on a boxset released by Cherry Red featuring Sheffield bands. That was their first appearance on a release. But they had recorded many songs as I mentioned, which you can listen on Soundcloud. And also they have a Facebook updated often with lots of memorabilia.
++ Hi John! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?
Yes, me and Dave Oldale (the guitarist) are in an indie cover version band, called Consider This. We play covers of indie songs by bands such as REM, The Cure, The Clash, Psychedelic Furs, Morrisey, Echo and the Bunnymen. We’re named after a line in Losing my Religion by REM.
++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?
My sister is 3 years older than me and so I could hear the music she played. Most of it was rubbish so when punk came along it grabbed my attention.
First serious instrument was bass guitar, although I did have piano lessons at an early age.
For the bass I listened to songs and tried to pick out the bass line, or I watched friends who also played bass. There was no Youtube back in 1981.
Before the age of 14 it was music from the radio, or my sister’s bedroom.
In 1978 I bought my first single – 5 Minutes by The Stranglers. My favourite band was The Jam, with All Mod Cons being my favourite album.
++ Had you been in other bands aside from Mr. Morality?
Myself, Dave and a couple of school friends rented a practice room but soon realised that we had no idea how to play or write songs. We didn’t even have a singer or a drummer. Dave and I were approached by Steve to be in a band with him.
++ How did all this bands sound?
Awful. We were learning our instruments.
++ Are there any recordings?
No, thankfully.
++ Where were you from originally? And how come you ended up in Sheffield?
We were born and brought up in Sheffield and still live either in or very close to this wonderful city.
++ How was Sheffield at the time of Mr. Morality? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?
It was an exciting place to be. We were about 21 years old, and we felt invincible. We wanted to be rock stars and Sheffield had some successful bands in the early ‘80s so we wanted to be part of that success, although musically nothing like those bands (Human League, ABC, Heaven 17).
Pulp had been around for a while with many other bands being formed and disbanded within days, forming for just one a gig. It was a fun thing to do. Artery were the band tipped to be the next big thing. They were exciting to see live.
Sheffield had a Virgin outlet, where we could go and listen to LPs through headphones. Record Collector is the longest running independent outlet.
The Hallamshire was the main small venue for seeing new bands. Other venues were used but The Limit, The Leadmill, The Octagon and The City Hall were the bigger venues for touring bands.
++ How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?
At secondary school. I met Steve on the first day in September 1975. We were in the same class. We met Dave on the first day of Sixth Form in September 1980. In 6th form you were either a punk or a rocker. We were in the room where the punks gathered between lessons.
In late 1984 me, Steve and Dave produced a demo tape with around 20 songs on. They were recorded on a 4 track in my bedroom, using a drum machine. Martin was known by Steve, so we gave him a copy of the demo tape to listen to. He liked it and wanted to be in the band. We moved into our own practice room either in December 1984 or January 1985.
++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?
Initially Steve wrote all the songs, but Dave and I helped to refine them and make them work. Latterly the songs came about by jamming and picking up on parts that sounded ok. Steve always wrote the lyrics.
We had a practice room on Garden Street, close to the centre of Sheffield, which we shared with a few bands on a rota basis. Pulp were one of the bands to use the room.
++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?
It’s taken straight from the title of a Pulp song. Steve suggested it and we liked it.
++ Who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?
XTC, Talking Heads, The Buzzcocks, The Jam, The Damned, Stiff Little Fingers, The Smiths, Echo and the Bunnymen.
++ How come there were no releases by the band? was there ever interest from any labels?
We could only afford to release tapes. CDs were new technology, and they were too expensive, as was vinyl.
Yes, we had numerous record companies come to see us. We were offered a deal, but it wasn’t realistic, so we turned it down.
++ And did you ever consider self-releasing?
Yes, but we couldn’t afford it.
++ But you did record many songs from what I see on Soundcloud. Wondering if we could do sort of a demo-graphy? There were 6 demo tapes, right? What songs were included in them?
Yes.
Tape 1: Terry and Jane, Sometimes I wonder, Valium Days
Tape 2: A less than perfect thing, Secret ships, Men and their Gods
Tape 3: A day by the sea, Our little world
Tape 4: Blue, Strawberry Mountain, Boy down our street, Autumn winds, The Inevitable end
Tape 5: The invisible man, The king of nowhere, Treehouse, This higher passion, Sand.
Tape 6: You’ll never be, Scream for me.
The Intro track was used just before we went on stage from July 1987 onwards.
++ I read that the main intention for these tapes were to get radio play, attract A&R and get gigs. Were the results satisfactory with them? Did you also sell them to fans?
Obviously not as satisfactory as we hoped. I think a production run was 100 tapes and we sold all the tapes that we didn’t send out to radio stations, A&R or venues.
++ There was a tape that was sold at the Pulp’s “Outrage” gigs between 1985 and 1986. This tape included two songs of yours. Wondering who made these tapes and how rare they are?
The tape was to promote gigs by 3 Sheffield bands, the other band being Dig Vis Drill. Oggy, from DVD, put together the gigs under the banner “Outrage!” and so it was Dig Vis Drill that put the tapes together. I guess they are rare.
++ And what was your relationship with Pulp? I feel you played many gigs together.
Steve had known Jarvis for a number of years but the music scene in Sheffield in the early ‘80s was very fluid and bands were forming and splitting up all the time. Many people played in many bands so there were always new bands to see where the members of Pulp would be in the crowd. Playing gigs with them and then them sharing our practice room meant we knew them quite well, at the time. Steve’s brother, Anthony, would be bass player for Pulp, for a short time in 1988. Dave Hinckler, our keyboard and trombone player, played trombone on Pulp’s first album, It. Dave’s brother, Simon, was also in early versions of Pulp.
++ On that tape we were talking about there is a song called “Terry and Jane”, I am always curious when there are proper names on songs, so I have to ask, who were Terry and Jane?
I don’t think Steve had any particular couple in mind when he wrote the lyrics. Although my sister is called Jane, so I often wondered if she was an influence. Steve’s lyrics were about life and love. They are all love songs, but he doesn’t go on about the soppy stuff. Steve’s still my favourite lyricist of all time.
++ A few years ago you appeared on “Dreams to Fill the Vacuum – The Sound of Sheffield 1977-1988” a boxset Cherry Red Records put out featuring Sheffield bands of course. Was it a surprise for you to get included? And did this release bring more attention to the band?
Very much so. I was quite naive and thought there would only be around 20 bands on the release. When more details were released I was surprised to find 80+ bands on the compilation.
A little, but only on the day. I was interviewed on Radio Sheffield. My son knows one of the presenters, so he mentioned it to him to see if Radio Sheffield were aware of the release. I don’t think they were.
++ Speaking of Sheffield and this compilation, there are so many great bands there. But wondering if you think they missed any good bands, maybe some more obscure ones, that deserve to get some attention now, any recommendations perhaps?
The main omission for me was Lay of the Land. We played a few gigs with them and they were similar musically.
++ No other compilation appearances, right?
Unfortunately not. I’d love for one of our songs to be on a film soundtrack. I wonder if that’s possible?
++ There are so many unreleased songs by the band, have you ever considered putting together a compilation album of all these songs?
For my 50th birthday my wife organised an LP for me, so there is actually 1 piece of Mr Morality vinyl in existence. She had to tell me about it, as she wanted me to pick the track listing.
++ One thing I did notice from all your songs I could listen is that the sound of the band evolved a bit. Early on you sound like very jangly and poppy and in later recordings you are a bit rockier, was that the natural evolution of the band? Or why do you think this change in direction happened?
It was a natural progression. Our song writing was getting better, and the songs were more involved. The main reason though was that Martin left at the end of 1987 and we replaced him with Dean, who had previously played trumpet at our gigs and on the recordings. Dean was more of a rock drummer then Martin, so our sound did change.
++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “A Less than Perfect Thing”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song?
It’s a love song about someone that didn’t feel confident in their life. Based on no-one in particular but maybe a number of people that Steve had gone out with.
++ If you were to choose your favorite Mr. Morality song, which one would that be and why?
I have many. If I had to pick one, and I did for the compilation, it would be The king of nowhere. Cherry Red Records wanted Valium Days for the compilation, I didn’t so we came to a compromise with Treehouse. A lot of the older songs are easier to play on the guitar.
++ Something that surprised me is that your Facebook page is well maintained with lots of memorabilia of the band. Who runs it? Is it yourself?
Yes, it’s me. Probably inspired by my midlife crisis but I thought it was about time that the story of Mr Morality was told. I’m currently working my way through the 35th anniversary of each gig. For most gigs I drove the van, so hadn’t had a drink, and after each gig I wrote down the set list and a few particulars from the gig. It’s amazing what comes back to me when I read a few words of what happened that day 35 years ago.
++ Do you think social media, or even the internet, would have make a difference for Mr. Morality if all of these existed back in the day?
I’m sure it would, and I would probably have a better idea of how to get the message across. I have no real idea what I’m doing or how to promote the page. I rely on my Facebook friends sharing the post.
++ What about gigs? Did you play many?
We played 45 gigs, all are mentioned on our Facebook page, which I’m currently just over half way through the 35 year anniversary review.
++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?
Plenty, but playing at The Limit, The Leadmill and The Nelson Mandela Building in Sheffield and Rock City in Nottingham were great venues to play.
All memories will be on our Facebook page.
++ And were there any bad ones?
Not that many, again my memories will be shared on our Facebook page. I think the most disappointing thing was playing to large crowds in Sheffield then going out of town and playing to hardly anyone.
++ When and why did Mr. Morality stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?
I think we were frustrated with the lack of recognition and the inability of being able to get quality gigs out of Sheffield. One reason could well have been that we didn’t have any vinyl for the venues to play in advance of a gig, or any other merchandise to sell. Sheffield in the mid to late ‘80s was not the trendy place to be from so the music press and the A&R people were focusing their resources elsewhere.
I was involved in one project with Mr Morality’s keyboard player (Dave Hinckler) and percussionist (Steve Naylor). I do have a copy of the song. It’s not my favourite song but it was great fun to create.
++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?
Steve has been most prolific. He’s been in a number of bands and produced a couple of solo albums.
The keyboard player, Dave Hinckler, was involved with Sheffield band Artery for a while, when they reformed. His brother Simon was an original member.
++ Has there been any Mr. Morality reunions?
I see Dave Oldale very regularly (we’re in a band together, playing cover versions of mainly indie type music). I see Steve a couple of times a year and I’ve seen Martin and Dave H a few times in 35 years. Only once have the four original members been back together, which was in a cafe over a coffee. I haven’t seen Dean or Steve N since 1988.
++ Was there any interest from radio? TV?
Only on local radio, when we sent them a new tape. We were on both of Sheffield’s local radio stations. We were also on Manchester Piccadilly radio – my wife went to University with the presenter and asked him to play us.
++ TV?
No, but there are a couple of videos out there. I have a copy of one of them (it’s also on Youtube), the other I’ve never seen.
++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?
There was some attention, especially from the local press but not enough National press that we could use to get gigs outside of Sheffield. The press clippings are on our Facebook page.
++ What about from fanzines?
Nothing, as far as I’m aware.
++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?
The creation of the songs, which I think stand the test of time. It’s a pity that only a small number of our songs were recorded. I wish we could have afforded to go in the studio more often. The memories are special, as are the enduring friendships. We shared a moment.
++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?
I play and watch football and am a keen astronomer.
++ Never been to Sheffield, so would still like to hear from a local for some recommendations! What are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?
Sheffield is the 4th/5th largest city in England, but it is really a big village where everyone knows someone who knows someone famous. The city is built on 7 hills, but only 5 rivers, and we have lots of trees. We’re on the doorstep of the Peak District National Park so Sheffield is used as a stopping off point for people who enjoy walking, climbing, cycling and anything else that involves adventure outdoors.
We have a massive real ale/micro-brewery scene and some wonderful old industrial buildings that have been renovated and converted into food and drink venues.
We have our own condiment (a sauce you put on your food). It’s called Henderson’s Relish, but is known locally as ‘Endos. It’s ideal on fish and chips, or on pies mash and peas.
Tramlines Festival, held at the end of July, has in just over 10 years grown from a free inner-city festival to a mid-range size three-day festival attracting 1000’s of paying customers. The main venue has moved to a large park out of town but on the same weekend the city centre still has a three-day free festival with music on in most pubs and clubs.
At other times of the year there are always bands playing in pubs. The Leadmill is still the best venue for seeing smaller established bands whilst the larger bands play at either the City Hall or Sheffield Arena.
++ Anything else you’d like to add?
Just to say thankyou for your interest. Knowing that the music we made 35 years ago is still being found and enjoyed is a good feeling.
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