Thanks so much to Jimmy and Gérôme for the interview! I discovered the Nantes band Nos Etés Trop Courts on the OVVK Archives Bandcamp that Jimmy runs and it was quite a surprise! I had interviewed Jimmy about his band Les Autres in the past and wasn’t aware he had been involved in this cool sounding band before Les Autres. So I immediately asked if he was up for a 2nd interview! He asked Gérôme to join too and now  thanks to them and this interview I have a better picture of the Nantes scene and the band! Hope you enjoy!

++ Hi Jimmy and Gérôme! Thanks so much for being for this interview! How are you? How is France at the moment? Have things relaxed a bit now? Are there any plans for this summer?

Gérôme: It is of course a strange period but it’s ok. Thank you interviewing us on Nos Etés Trop Courts. Some people were glad to see that our “Sunshine demo EP” from January 1992 was out, particularly Nantes indie pop underground people. We are honored to see that some people from other countries enjoy the music we made during the golden period of the shoegaze movement.

++ Last time I talked with Jimmy about Les Autres. I wasn’t aware then about this Nantes band that came before. Was wondering then if you both had been involved in other bands prior to Nos Etés Trop Courts?

Gérôme: It’s fascinating because I never talked about that with Jimmy.  l played in a few new wave/4AD style bands before Nos Etés Trop Courts. The first one, Ramsesghom that I began in 1989 (I was 19 years old) played some Joy Division, The Cure early albums and Sisters Of Mercy covers. The second, Abecurria, in 1990 was more into And Also The Trees and Cocteau Twins stuffs, the reason whythere was a loud bass played with a mediator (like the one I played in the second demo of Nos Etes Trop Courts) and some aerial guitars with delay. But Nos EtésTrop Courts which started in the first months of 1991 was my first real coherent and harmonious music experience.

Nos Etés Trop Courts was still playing when I started another band, Crash, in January 1992 which would be the more successful band I would be in (like Jimmy with Les Autres). Jimmy re-released the first (July 1992) demo of Crash in OVVK last year. When we originally released it, it was broadcasted on a national radio show, had been reviewed in Les Inrockuptibles, a national magazine dedicated to indie music. Tracks from this demo were also featured on various International indie pop cassette. compilations:  https://ovvkarchives.bandcamp.com/album/demo-1.

Between 1992 and 1996, Crash was more into Swervedriver, Dinosaur Jr or even Mudhoney pop core scene. Here is a German indie pop compilation from 1994 (Garage Flowers) with some tracks by Les Autres (with Jimmy) and Crash (with me): .

https://www.discogs.com/fr/Various-Garage-Flowers/release/4354533

In 1994, I started another band with Pascal and Pat’ (From San July), which was more into dissonant pop and post rock, Snowfan. And in 1996 I also made a side project, a hardcore skate band called Nosegrab.

Jimmy: Nos Etes Trop Courts was my first real experience in a band even if I made some rehearsals before with two girls under the moniker Chrysalide (there are no recordings from that band and believe me, only the name of the band was nice haha).

A bit before Nos Etés Trop Courts I started to write songs on the  bass influenced by various bass players such as Simon Gallup of The Cure, Peter hook of New Order and most of all at that time Ian Masters of Pale Saints especially the bass chords. Some of those songs ended up being played by the band such as Nos Etés Trop Courts, Waiting (renamed Leaves Return To Dust after I left the band), Y’A Des Jours Sans and Only Of The Night. But on the 4 track recorder we recorded the first demo, I recorded more songs, some of which I had planned for Nos Etés Trop Courts before leaving the band and songs that I had recorded up to 1992-1993 when I joined Les Autres. I’ll release them soon on Ovvk Recordings under the moniker Diaphane which was the name I originally suggested for the band but it was rejected by some of the members. These demos are “rough” and unfinished versions. Diaphane was an indie pop project strongly influenced by The Cure, The Sundays, New Order, The Wedding Present, The Lavender Faction(…) and even The Field Mice in a certain way. I plan to call the demos Indie Pop Themes as they all are instrumentals.

++ I did ask Jimmy about this last time, but would love to hear from Gérôme. What are your first musical memories? What was the first instrument did you get and how?

Gérôme: I was born in may 1970. My first musical shock was when I was 14, the San Francisco Bay Area thrash metal guitar sound (Metallica, Slayer, Exodus…). But a few years later, the shoegaze scene was really fascinating because there was some loud noisy guitars with heavenly voices. Really chaotic noisy panorama landscapes with beautiful melodic voices. With Jim’ and other friends we saw Lush and Pale Saints in Nantes, January 1990. It was their first gig outside England. We loved that so much.  A revelation.

++ Who else was in Nos Etés Trop Courts? And how did the recruiting process work?

Gérôme: In February 1990, I saw an ad pinned on a wall notice board for student in the hall of the faculty of literature “noisy pop band seeks guitarist”. That’s how it worked back then, before the Internet. I called the phone number when I got home. The group had been founded a few months earlier by Pascal and Jimmy (who had met each other through classified ads), then Marielle began to sing, then Guillaume, the drummer joined them. We rehearsed in a school, Guillaume’s father was the supervisor so we had access to the premises. I arrived a week or two after Marielle started singing. This line up is the one on the first 4-track demo (recorded in June and July 1991) which was just released here: https://ovvkarchives.bandcamp.com/album/sunset-demo-ep

Then (for the 1991-1992 academic year) the group continued but Marielle went to study in Lille and was replaced by Fabrice (who later released records under the name of River). Jimmy also left at that time because he was starting university  in Rennes (where he will meet Les Autres). That’s why I play the bass on the second demo (in addition to the guitar).

++ How was Nantes back then? Were there any bands that you liked? What were the good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

Gérôme: Nantes was starting to get really hyped in the early 1990s. There was an indie pop group that played a lot called The Little Rabbits. We saw them in Nantes in April 1991 opening for The Pastels and then in January 1992 with Lucie Vacarme and The Boo Radleys.

There was also a young woman who was probably around 17 or 18yrs old, she published some cool fanzines, released various cassette compilations from the Sarah indie pop scene (she knew Matt and Clare). She also released minimalist pop singers from Nantes like Katerine or Dominique A. and knew musicians from the Scottish pop scene (BMX Bandits, Teenage Fanclub, The Vaselines, Captain America…). Here you can read an interview (in French) I did with her more than 20 years ago: https://section-26.fr/les-anoraks-sages/.

In Nantes, some musicians started to play shoegaze a few months after Nos Etés Trop Courts, bands like 1000 Spirales, San July or RIP. There was also a cool club, “Le Floride”, the DJ, Laurent, was the manager of the “Little Rabbits” he also had a radio show and would launch a few years later the esteemed vinyl record store “Black & Noir”.

If readers want to know more on the local scene and hear local indie pop bands of that era, there’s na 8 hour radio program I made on Jet FM (a local station from Nantes).It’s a retrospective of indie pop bands from Nantes (1989-2012) :  http://jetfm.fr/site/Vendredi-25-mars-de-13h-a-18h-en.html

There’s a cassette compilation, “Biscuits Nantais”, featuring various bands from Nantes mid 90’s indie pop scene (featuring a track by me under the moniker Norb’urt) : https://www.discogs.com/fr/Various-Biscuits-Nantais/release/12190640

I also wrote in the fanzine “Les Jolies Melodies” edited in Nantes by Franck Vergeade, who is now music Editor in chief of the national magazine Les Inrockuptibles, but it was in 1993-1994 and Nos Etés Trop Courts had already split at that time.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name? 

Gérôme: I realize I don’t know much about that. I joined the band, partied with the musicians of the band (Marielle, Jimmy Pascal with other friends), but I don’t know anything about the lyrics either. I wasn’t involved in the writing of the lyrics. However, I know that “Nos Etés Trop Courts” was taken from a poem by Charles Baudelaire called “Chant d’Automne”. A beautiful text, a bit sad and nostalgic, full of spleen, like the lyrics Marielle used to write.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

Gérôme: The first few months (early 1991) Jimmy would bring in basslines and we would build songs around it. Everyone did what they wanted, listening to the others. Guillaume had played in a funk band before coming with us,so we sometimes tried to ask him for baggy sound rhythms and patterns. Secondly, after a few months, I started to bring songs composed on my guitar, with a grid of chords and melodies. For example, on the second demo (Sunshine EP), late 1991, you can hear the difference between the first two tracks that Jimmy composed on the bass and the next two that I composed on the  guitar. Pascal had good ideas for arrangements. Then, especially the second year, Pascal also brought some songs.

++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

Gérôme: At that time,we were really into the shoegaze news. Each month we discovered new Eps (especially Pascal). We liked Slowdive, Ride or My Bloody Valentine of course, but also The Field Mice and other bands from Sarah records, Pale Saints, Lush, Chapterhouse, Teenage Fanclub, or even Swervedriver or Aspidistra. I remember Jimmy was very fond of The Wedding Present and Talk Talk. I also listened to Jesus & Mary Chain and discovered the old albums by the Velvet Underground (I first heard about the Velvet Underground with Joy Division’s “Sister Ray” cover on the live album Still).

We were also really into the New Order first albums and The Cure (especially Faith and Desintegration). You can hear the influence on my Y’A Des Jours Sans guitar melody.

At that time there was an incredible label in Nantes called Lithium Records. We liked its bands, especially Candle and Lucie Vacarme. We also appreciated the minimalist singers’ wave (mainly in Nantes), Dominique A., Katerine, M. de Foursaings or Yann Savel.

Jimmy: I think that the two main influences are Pale Saints for the bass style and The Field Mice for the way of balancing the drum machine with the bass line and guitar chords. There’s also a bit of early Ride influences on the track Nos Etés Trop Courts. I love the guitar parts that Gérôme plays on Only Of The Night, it reminds me of The Cure in their Faith period. And when I wrote the bass line of Waiting (aka Leaves Return To Dust) I remember being influenced by several bass lines by The Sundays:  Can’t Be Sure, Hideous Town, Skin & Bones…

++ I am only aware of the second demo of the band that is up on Bandcamp. Do tell me about the 1st demo. Do you plan uploading it? What songs were on it? Where and who recorded it?

Gérôme: The first demo was recorded in June 1991 by Jimmy with his 4 track cassette recorder and his old drum machine. Pascal was doing his national service. I think he was not here, so there is only my guitar.

On the first demo Jimmy’s bass is amazing, really huge.It’s a rough analogue sound but I love it. I try a lot of different things on the guitar. “Nos Etés Trop Courts” is orthodox shoegaze, but with a clear guitar sound for the chorus, “Y’A Des Jours Sans” is influenced by New Order and “Only of the Night” is more, mellow, eery, atmospheric.

It’s Marielle singing. Marielle had no singing experience in fact, her amateur performances (she sometimes sang out of tune) were precisely what we defended. We also liked (what we heard about) the texts of Marielle, very personal and fragile, like the ones of Y’A Des Jours Sans where she explains that some days, she is depressed and does not want to get up. Pascal said that was “authentic “ indie pop and at that time I was learning what were lo-fi, DiY attitude and underground subculture. I remember it was a revelation when  Pascal, Marielle and Jimmy saw the Pastels in concert. They were shy and friendly, with a rough sound. Pascal enjoyed their show a lot. At some stage I would always play a wrong note in the guitar chorus of Nos Etés Trop Courts, right at the end of the track. My friend Jérôme (the future lead singer of the band Crash) would make a point of telling us, but Pascal would then reply “We don’t care, we play what we want”. That always stayed with me.

Jimmy: Yes, they were recorded in my bedroom at my parents. There is a first demo version of Nos Etés Trop Courts, an instrumental rehearsal version of Leaves Return To Dust (working title: Waiting), Y’A Des Jours Sans and Only Of The Night (two unreleased songs). Marielle is on vocals and wrote the lyrics.

And so yes after you sent us the questions for the interview we released it here: https://ovvkarchives.bandcamp.com/album/sunset-demo-ep

++ The second demo is titled “Sunshine EP” and has two girls on the cover. I find them very familiar but can’t figure out who are they… do tell!

Gérôme: We all had 4 cassette tracks recorders and drum machines at the time. Pascal had just bought a new drum machine and had offered to manage the recording. I thought it was a good idea (besides he recorded other pop bands in the years that followed). He had a half-hollow guitar. We can hear the subtle feedback he made at the end of “Walk Of Nones”;-).

++ Was there any other demo tapes?

No. Only rehearsal recordings

++ And normally these demo tapes you released, were they mostly for promotion purposes, to send to radio and magazines? or did you perhaps sell them to fans?

Jimmy: I think we recorded the first demo for fun. At the time we recorded it we didn’t plan to find gigs or try to have a review in a fanzine or a magazine. Also, we didn’t have a manager, we were real beginners.

++ Are there more recordings by the band? Unreleased songs?

Jimmy:  The last unreleased songs are on Demo #1 and so there are some songs that I started when I was still in the band that I will release under the moniker Diaphane.

++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Leaves Return to Dust”,  so what’s the story behind it?

Jimmy: I can’t tell you about the lyrics, we’d have to ask Fabrice but when I wrote it on the bass I was deeply influenced by The Sundays, listen to their first album, it’s obvious 😉

++ If you were to choose your favorite Nos Etés Trop Courts song, which one would that be and why?

Jimmy: Leaves Return To Dust is probably my fav too. I think that my second fav would be Only Of The Night. Probably because I didn’t even remember that one until Gérôme told me recently he had it on a cassette. Even though I always remembered the bass line, I forgot we demoed it and didn’t hear it in 28 years. I can tell you it’s fantastic to discover a song that you wrote almost 30 years earlier!

There’s something very touching on this first demo because it’s really naïve, you can hear clearly that we’re beginners. But still, you can feel that we got the hang of writing and I love this dark/melancholic mood hesitating between a light Indie Pop mood and a darker Post-Punk / Cold Wave one.

Gérôme: My favourite song is Nos Etés Trop Courts.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

Jimmy: When I was in the band, we played only one outdoor gig during the national French music day (Fête de La Musique), the 21st of June 1991. But as Gérôme said they played with the second line-up in the local Club called Melody Maker in 1992.

++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

Jimmy: Sadly, I don’t have a good memory of that period. I think that the best anecdote is that we would almost all have amazing musical experiences with Les Autres and Crash a few years after that, opening for great bands such as The Wedding Present or The House Of Love.

++ And were there any bad ones?

Jimmy: Hopefully, no bad ones as far as I can remember 😉

++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

Jimmy: Probably to play in this small but hype local club, Melody Maker.

Gérôme: Or probably being an underground band, but in the popular music avant-garde of that time, playing shoegaze at the same time as Ride or Slowdive edited their first album.

++ Never visited Nantes but would love to go one day, maybe I can ask for some suggestions? Like what are the sights I shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks I should try?

Jimmy:  In my last interview for Les Autres you were supposed to try crêpes in French Brittany, remember Roque? Did you try?

To be honest this part of the Atlantic coast is not the best place in France when it comes to landscapes.

But if you go a bit further north-west and you visit French Brittany, which I think you did in the past Roque, the coast is beautiful in many parts and there are really nice small islands.

You could also go to this village where Gauguin and other impressionists stayed at the end of the 19th century: Pont-Aven. There’s a nice little impressionists museum. Also in Carnac you could see what is probably the biggest site of menhirs (standing stone) in the world and which is contemporary to Stonehenge.

In Nantes the main thing is the Castle of the Dukes of Brittany. In Nantes, Anne de Bretagne was the last Duchess of the independent Brittany (connected to Great Britain) until she married the King of France (16th Century).

Gérôme: I Love Nantes and the people from Brittany. It deserves to be known!

++ Lastly one non-music question, one about football. Do you support Nantes or Rennes?

Jimmy:  Neither Nantes nor Rennes. I’m personally against professional sport which is in my opinion one of the strongest tools for mainstream-corporate culture to alienate people. Sorry to be that serious on that matter 😉

Gérôme: The only thing I like about football is to be with friends watching games. But you must be a connoisseur, because there is indeed the Breton derby Rennes vs Nantes.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Jimmy: Just thanks again for your support and what you do Roque to keep alive the spirit of independent music of those years !

Gérôme: I’d like to add 2 things:

The first one is that if Nos Etés Trop Courts has produced almost nothing, most of its musicians did a lot of things afterwards. Marielle worked in music. First at the Olympic, the main concert hall venue in Nantes, then she started a business of booking bands and managing others.

Pascal played in several bands (Crash, Snowfan, Hafner, Newell…) and started an indie record label, Cindie. He began with a cassette compilation titled Ces Chères Têtes Blondes :

https://www.discogs.com/fr/Various-Ces-Ch%C3%A8res-T%C3%AAtes-Blondes/release/2259390

Then he released singles and albums.

Jimmy played in Les Autres, and I played in Crash, then wrote in Magic RPM Magazine and became a sociologist studying music. Crash and Les Autres had a lot of press, made records and concert gigs.

Fabrice released several vinyl singles as River:

https://www.discogs.com/fr/artist/379522-River-5

The second one is that Nos Etés Trop Courts was a band that lasted a short time. Formed in January 1991, and died in June 1992. We have never been to a professional studio but spent very little time outside of rehearsals saving a few titles on 4 cassette tracks. These tapes were never shown outside of the band’s 20-plus fans until Jimmy released them on Ovvk Recordings. The first demo was recorded in June 1991 at Jimmy’s. The second demo, Sunshine EP” was recorded in October 1991 by Pascal and I. Jimmy and Marielle had just moved to other cities for their studies. We continued to hang out with them, but Fabrice came to sing after we met him. He put his voice on our music on January 1992. This second demo, Sunshine EP, was really in the wave I think.

https://ovvkarchives.bandcamp.com/track/nos-etes-trop-courts

It has the sound of the time. It is part of the history of indie pop. But we did not realise it counted at the time. Pascal didn’t like Fabrice’s way of singing that much, he thought his way of singing was too technical, too professional, too clean. For Fabrice, it was a revelation to play with us. He listened to things like Front 242 or Depeche Mode before he met us. He heard shoegazing music with us for the first time and was enthusiastic when he first heard that kind of sound. Because we did not realise the precursor dimension of compositions like Leaves return to dust or Nos Etés Trop Court. We did not broadcast these recordings at the time and  we did few concerts. We had not shown them on compilations even though people today tell us it was great. And your reaction confirms it to us. That’s life anyway.

Have a nice day and thank you for your support!

Thanks to Sonia Stewart for the English correction.

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Listen
Nos Etés Trop Courts – Leaves Return To Dust

Thanks so much to Dave Webb for the interview! I wrote about the fantastic Wolverhampton band The Weeping Messerchmitts on the blog some time ago. Just after the label Optic Nerve was announcing that they were re-releasing the “Nothing Yet” 12″ as a 7″, Dave Webb get on touch and luckily he was up to tell the story of the band!

++ Hi Dave! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Still making music?

Yes I am very well with good health, keeping fit at the gym, although its more my social club, working mainly weekends as a full time musician. Now singing and playing guitar in clubs in and around the Midlands as “Dave Jonson”, accommodating each clubs specific style and needs, but preferring the 2 x one hour Indie sets, covering the Cure, Mighty Lemon Drops, Inspiral Carpets, Morrissey and the likes.

 ++ Just a few days ago the label Optic Nerve was announcing that they were going to reissue your one 12″ single as a 7″. How did this happen? How did they track you down? Was it a surprise to you?

A complete unknown to all of us, they had been tracking us previously but couldn’t find any of us, but they finally got through to Mark Jeavons, and it snowballed from there. It was a surprise but not shockingly, as we have been approached previously by companies mainly in America.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen at home while growing up?

My first musical memory was being taken as an 11yr old to see Birmingham Symphony Orchestra in Bham, to listen to Tchaikovsky’s 1812 overture, which left an imprint on me to this day. Then through the 70s ,especially the Punk stage and the 80s synth and then indie scene.

My first instrument was Guitar, my elder brother Steve played bass in a band and forced me to learn A and D chords so he could practice the bass line to All right now by Free..Which held me in good stead, cus I saw the clash on TV and saw Mick Jones playing the two chords I knew, and that was it ,I was off on a journey.

++ Had you been in other bands before Weeping Messerchmitts? What about the rest of the band members? If so, how did all of these bands sounded like? Are there any recordings?

We had all been in bands before but only performed local to our surroundings. We have recordings but only on old cassettes made by our mates .hahaha, great times.

++ Where were you from originally?

Mark Alexander the bass player and Garry Oliver the Guitarist came from Sedgley, Mark Jeavons the Guitarist escaped from Bilston, I still live in Tipton and Simon Atkins the drummer came from Hammerwich.

++ How was Wolverhampton at the time of Weeping Messerchmitts? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

Wolverhampton had thriving musical venues, with many bands, but fortunately the two Marks and Garry had school friends in The Mighty Lemon Drops and we kinda hung out together but with musical differences, they had a few years on us but gave us opportunities to support, and our first gig was to a packed Wolverhampton Polytechnic, further gigs were added and we flew with them till gigs started coming our way to headline. We owe them a lot.

Other bands were the Wild flowers and Pop will eat itself, that we performed alongside, The Sand Kings and the Honey Turtles I remember were 2 particularly good bands, they supported us at JBs in Dudley, which was our home, (the press gave us the Wolverhampton badge). As for venues JBs in Dudley was THE place to be seen and heard, our first night there was rammed.

++ When and how did the band start? How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?

The band started in a pub in Sedgley where M, M and G put together a few ideas over a pint, a few weeks later a cassette with song ideas was made in Mark j’s bedroom and then the best knock on my door ever arrived. I had been in a band with Garry a few years earlier (Quirks) learning the ropes , we all split amicably and as I say a few yrs later the knock on the door. Mark (bass) and Garry played the tape and said would I write melodies, words, sing, and do I know a drummer.   At the time I was in the company of Gary ODea a drummer of another band The Prototypes, a Ska band of local lads. I approached gaz and we formed what was then, “The Railway Children”.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

We practiced at Sam Sharp Project in Wolverhampton centre right opposite the train station, Run by a Jamaican guy named Granville, We practiced and mixed with a fantastic bunch of people, what fantastic times we had there ,practicing was a joy, which I feel reflected our tone. During the first main year of gigs we had an offer from Jerry Cott , Guitarist with the Boomtown rats to manage us, which went well for a few months, then offering to change the look and output of the band, we disagreed  and he stepped out the soon after , on which Gary O Dea, drums, left. Simon Atkins was nothing at all to do with our look and music, a long haired rocker in spandex he turned up after advertising in the melody maker. He was and still is awesome, a word I never use. Within a month the jean jacket and jeans with an indie haircut used to turn up to practice.  What a talented man.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name? 

During all this time we were the Railway Children performing , Timebox , Cricketers, weekly indie venues in London, On the tails of the Lemon Drops at the Leadmill in Sheffield, then our 3rd or 4th JBs Gig we had a call in the dressing room, “This is Virgin Records, You have to change your name ,our lawyers need to issue paperwork to you ,can you give me an address?, “fuck off ya prick “,was my response.

But as we found out they had signed a Manchester band who had pinched our name…we used the press (NME ,Sounds, and especially Record Mirror) over the next few months to our advantage as they would pick up on all our hard work and fan base. But with the Mighty Virgin lawyers on our backs, we struggled to get to a name as The Railway Children was imprinted in our mindset.. Practicing one night Mark J came to practice and opened a ww2 book, the heading of the chapter was “Weeping Messerschmitts”. Immediately I said that’s it, it just fit with all of us. Then began the hard work of starting again.

++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

Influences were many but we were gladly mentioned in the Music press as a “younger Smiths” kind of feel, we all had Punk in our veins, who hadn’t at that time???? but with many many others types of sounds, my major influence was Bill Nelson, although never used him purposely as an influence ,I’m sure the melodies must have been guided by him.

++ As we were saying earlier, you only released one 12″ single on Uptight Records in 1986. How did you end up working with this label? Was there any interest from other labels?

We were approached by 3 major labels, Polygram, Island and Stiff records,  but the best deal was when Upright approached us. We had been in a few studios recording so we could sell tapes on the black market, But Upright paid for us to go into Rich Bitch Studios in Bham to do the three tracks on the 12 inch.

++ The Uptight label had some fine bands in their catalogue like The Doctor’s Children or Yeah Jazz. Were you familiar or friends with any of the bands on the label?

Yes we did many London gigs with Yeah jazz , a fine bunch of lads, although no one understood our Black country accents so we kinda never got too friendly..Plus we were needing to drive back to the midlands to get to work next day.. Never worked with Doctors Children although I remember they had some decent write ups.

++ One thing that surprised me was that 8 years after the record was reissued in Spain. Were you aware of that at the time? Do you have a copy of the Spanish single? And there was also a compilation appearance in a Spanish comp called “Lo Mejor de los Ochenta”, the best from the 80s. I suppose you have many fans in Spain? Is that so?

We had no knowledge of the Spanish connection, although I had mail from a Spanish Music reporter during the time we were gigging, but as for the Old Gold issue, nothing. The compellation album I have only recently heard of in the last 3months. Again, a complete surprise. As for fans in Spain, I hope we have, and long may they be there.

++ Tell me about the art for the 12″, where does the front cover comes from? And where was the back photo taken?

The artwork was chosen by us from my various pieces proffered by Upright, it just fitted the mood of the track. The back photo was, and still is, my worst nightmare, we had been recording in Rich Bitch and came out at 3am in the morning, knackered, Jerry Cott had put me through my paces after everyone had done there piece while they were fresh and awake, I was knackered when I recorded the vocals, we left and before we drove back he took some photos one which was used for the back cover, the band thought I had a moody look so I agreed, but as soon as it was released, it was the only fault, the new 7inch will be different.. at long last……hahahaha

++ There was a promo video for the song “Panthera Parvos” that was recorded at the British Federal Tipton and JBs in Dudley. How was the experience making the video?

My younger brother martin was doing a Degree in Media and had as part of his work ,to create a working video, he approached us with his team and took the set up to JBs Dudley and over the fields by the Black Country Museum and shot it, It was a weird experience but pleasantly rewarding.

++ Have you heard the cover version of “Nothing Yet” by Terry Malts? What do you think of it? Are you aware of any other covers of your songs?

I think that’s just an error, that’s me singing. I know an American band Pale Spectre got in touch and ask me if I would allow them to perform Nothing Yet on a tour they were doing, which I gladly agreed.

++ Are there still unreleased songs by the band? Or everything was released?

We have loads of unreleased songs, we kept them away from Upright even though they were great to work with we understood the industry.

++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Nothing Yet”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

“Nothing Yet” was a token of our attitude to Margaret Thatchers Britain at that time, along with my failing marriage the two seemed to blend into purposeful and meaningful, (to us), words. The Guitar riff was created by Mark J, I just hummed over it and wrote a few words, not wanting it to be heavily burdened with political and personal connotations I repeated the verse to be memorable, the “na na na na” section was memorable in itself with the crowd always singing it on the way out the venues. One of the reasons maybe to release it as the single.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Weeping Messerchmitts song, which one would that be and why?

Truly and honestly, we had no favorites we enjoyed performing all of the tracks…any that never made it to the stage we shelved and reworked or dropped.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many? 

I played about 50 gigs , when I left the band they did a further gigs .

++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

Best gigs?? For crowd participation would be Wolvo Poly, The Leadmill with the Lemon Drops and every JBs gig.

++ And were there any bad ones?

Never Had a bad gig, although we played the Coach and Horses in West Bromwich, which was  a Heavy rock venue and 3 people turned up , one with his dog, he just sat and had a pint at the back. Also had a gig in Hereford where Heavy Rockers tried to stop the gig by throwing chairs about the place. But in both we played well, just the wrong venue.

++ When and why did Weeping Messerchmitts stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

I stopped singing to try to save my marriage, what a twat.. we split 2 yrs after I left the band.

++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?

Mark Alexander left the band in 87/88 and joined The Wild Flowers, Then returned to full time employment but continued to play the pub and club scene with a covers band, funnily enough with Messerschmitts Garry Oliver. He continues playing at home as he is now a professional driver with royal mail.

Mark Jeavons carried on writing and played briefly with The wild Flowers front man Neil Foley. He is currently not performing but still does home recording ideas for future times.

Garry Oliver has never stopped performing, still to this day his covers band, having a relaxed approach to the music industry and performing as and when the need arises.

Simon Atkins  left and started a record shop alongside playing with Roxy Magic, The UKs finest Roxy Music tribute band, which he still does to this day.

Dave Webb had a barren period from 88 to 93 musically, but was approached to front Midland show band Baktrak, winning multiple awards from the Industry, when the band split Dave formed two duos, one of which he played alongside Ray James of “Cum to Bedlam” fame, after that Dave went solo working the greater Midland clubs as guitar vocalist “Dave Jonson”, and still performs as a full time artiste.

++ Has there been any Weeping Messerchmitts reunion?

We were going to reform a few yrs ago when the JBs Book was released but though twice about it. But maybe now the single is re released its more tempting, we all still play in one form or another.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

We had major national music press coverage for gigs, write ups and the release of the single of course.

++ What about radio or TV?

We were discussed on Radio 1 show Janet Long due to our unusual name, but not as far as I know never played on daytime national radio. We had local success with BRMB, Beacon Radio, Radio WM, Shropshire Radio and some local community radio stations. As for TV, I wish !!!!

++ What about from fanzines?

We had many fanzine interviews but looking back we didn’t take them too seriously, answering questions with alcohol and pornographic innuendoes….but yes fanzine were rife in the eighties.

++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

The biggest highlight for us as a band was the feel on stage, we knew the songs were good, we knew we looked good, and we knew we sounded good, But we wasn’t big headed or cocky, we just did our job and let others climb on board if they felt the need.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

For me Hobbies are out the window, im a full time musician who makes 90% of my tracks so I concentrate on making my backing tracks sound good, the best compliment I have, is that I sound like a band on stage, that to me, is priceless.

++ Never been to Wolverhampton, so would like to hear from some locals for some recommendations by a local, like sights one shouldn’t miss? Food and drinks one should try?

Being a Black Country lad, I would recommend the Black Country Museum and the Canal Experience next door, a fantastic day out . The Fountain Inn in Owen Street Tipton offers a great range of traditional ales and excellent pub food, also the Jubilee pub in Powis Avenue Tipton offers the best curry in the area.

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Listen
Weeping Messerschmitts – Nothing Yet

Thanks so much to Bernd for the interview! I wrote about Gloom of the Grave on the blog some time ago looking for any information about this obscure German band who hailed from the Hannover area. I had discovered them through a song on Youtube that my friend Heinz posted and I thought it was really good. And yeah, this post helped and Bernd got in touch and he was kind enough to answer all my questions!

++ Hi Bernd! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Still making music?

Hi Roque, I am fine, thanks for inviting us to an interview. I am not active in music anymore. Some former band members still do music but some don’t. Time is changing in life ☺…

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen at home while growing up?

My first music experiences were I think about 1980 when I played drums in a two members band (guitar + drums).  The drum was self constructed out of cartons, metal pieces and the heating radiator in the children’s room. Was fun, with ten years age. At about 13 years age I started playing bass guitar.

++ Had you been in other bands before Gloom of the Grave? What about the rest of the members? If so, how did all of these bands sound like? Are there any recordings?

Yes I played in school bands mostly together with friends who also came to join in Gloom of the Grave.

++ Where were you from originally?

I originally come from a small city near Hanover in Germany. In this region Gloom of the Grave was situated too.

++ How was Dresden at the time of Gloom of the Grave? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

I moved to Dresden later on so our experiences with other bands are from Hanover. It was a quite active rock band scene in Hanover at the time Gloom of the Grave existed (1989 until 1995) with some very good bands. Maybe “Scorpions” is the most popular band from Hanover if people like them or not. Another band from Hanover coming out in the early 90ies was “Fury in the Slaughterhouse”.

++ When and how did the band start? How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?

We started with playing in school bands in about 1986. In 1989 we changed the name into “Gloom of the Grave” and therefore also changed our music style. As we already knew each other from school and from old bands there was no real recruiting process at the beginning.

++ Were there any lineup changes?

Some few changes were during the years. The drummer changed his role to the singer (like Genesis ☺) so we got a new drummer. And the keyboardist also changed.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

I think everybody of us had some contribution to the songs in terms of music and lyrics. Some ideas emerged at home and some during our music rehearsals.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name? 

We have a song called “Gloom of the Grave” and this was the basis for the band name. Our intention was to give some dark impression.

++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

At the end of the 80ies we were strongly influenced by bands like Sisters of Mercy, Fields of the Nephilim, the Cure etc. so we also tried to create a dark sound. Compared to other bands who don’t want to be to be restricted to a certain music style we wanted to fulfill all clichés. We wanted to be a goth band☺.

++ One thing I am curious is that you have these jangly pop songs and then you have some other more darker songs. How did this duality work for the band?

In fact our attempts to create a dark sound were “interfered” by pop influences. Our past bands were more like pop bands and I think some of my former band members had very good melodic inspirations to put into our songs. This is why it resulted into a mixture of dark songs and pop songs. Of course every band member had a special musical contribution to the work.

++ Your first release was the CD single “La Guardia” in 1991, is that right? Or were there previous releases or recordings by the band? Perhaps demo tapes?

The first proper record release of Gloom of the Grave was the CD La Guardia, some tapes before existed only from recordings in the rehearsal room but they were not really suitable for a demo tape.

++ I was very curious about the name of the CD “La Guardia”. Where does the name come from?

The name of the CD is originated from the title song “La Guardia”. It is a song about the airport LaGuardia in New York. When a band member of us had been traveling to New York he made the observations described in the. Somehow it is a song about globalization, about alienation, about losing his relation to his home.

Another song on the CD is “Behind the Fence”, a song about the incidences during the political changes in east and western countries in 1989. In the song the situation of people from former Eastern Germany people is described as being stranded in the embassy of Prague in order to refuge to Western Germany. At the time of our musical activity at the end of the 80ies this was a major incident and had a big influence.

++ This CD was self-released. How did that work for the band? Did you enjoy taking care of pressing the CD, promoting it, doing label work in general?

The 3 song record “La Guardia” was recorded in a studio belonging to a friend of our singer. I think it is always a great thing for a young band to record your own songs in a studio, to release these records and to get some kind of feedback. It was a very nice experience for us, together with all the related work like labeling, contacting music magazines and so on.

++ Then in 1995 you released an album called “Serenity”. I wasn’t aware at all of this album. Who put it out? Where was it recorded?

The album “Serenity” was recorded in two studio sessions, three songs in Hanover in 1994 and seven songs in Hildesheim in 1995. The record was finally released by the German label “Idol Music”. For this CD we shortened our band name into “Gloom”.

++ How was the experience of recording an album? Much different to the early single?

To record a whole album was a good experience too. It was a good time to stay in a studio for a relatively long time only making and recording music, to get a feeling of doing something like professional music activities for a limited time. Especially during the recordings in 1994 we were quite enthusiastic about the studio work. Unfortunately we had to finance most of the studio activities and record pressing by ourselves even though it was released by a music label. Finally we had about one day time per song for recording and mixing. Of course this is not enough time to get professional results.

++ The only other notice of releases of yours is on a compilation called “72 Minutes” that the label Pigs Can’t Fly released in 1993. You contributed the song  “Time To…”. Who were behind that label and how did you end up on this compilation?

We came to this compilation by an advertisement in the German music magazine Zillo from the person of Pigs cant fly who organized the CD compilation. He also organized some funding to realize the compilation.  Good idea to enable amateur bands to release their own songs on a compilation. We sent the CD “La Guardia” to the organizer of Pigs cant fly so the song “Time to get away” was finally chosen as a contribution of the compilation CD.

++ So the CD single, the CD album and the compilation, are them all your discography or are we missing something? Are there more songs by the band? Unreleased?

These three CD´s is the full discography of Gloom of the Grave. There are some more songs existing but they were only recorded on rehearsal room tapes and on live concert tapes.

++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Time to Get Away”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

“Time to get away” is a song about escaping from his old life, from bad experiences and maybe from lovesick into a new life or to a new place where you want to be. This is why it is called Time to get away (like time to escape).

++ If you were to choose your favorite Gloom of the Grave song, which one would that be and why?

Apart from “Time to get away” which probably is one of our best songs my personal favorites are “Profound Sleep” and “Pavements Grey” on the album “Serenity”. For me these two songs have some very good song writing. As far as I know “Profound Sleep” was close to getting some contribution for another German CD compilation but it never came to this.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

With Gloom of the Grave we were playing a number of gigs between 1989 and 1995, predominantly in our home region in Hanover and the surrounding. Most of them took place with other bands, for example as a support gig, some of them on festivals as well.

++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

We had a gig in Hanover as a support of the British band “And also the Trees”. For me this was maybe the best gig of Gloom of the Grave. “And also the Trees” was one of my favorite bands at that time and it was the only gig we had with kind of an” international act”. And the reaction of the audience for our support gig was also not too bad.

++ And were there any bad ones?

Yes, sometimes the room was almost empty when we had a gig and people were standing at the bar drinking beer instead of paying attention. This was less motivating but it is normal, most bands probably know this situation.

++ When and why did Gloom of the Grave stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

At the end my motivation to continue was very low and I think for the other band members it was the same. And maybe at some age other things get more important and time is limited. Everything has it´s time. Afterwards I didn’t play in a band anymore.

++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?

Our drummer changed to another band and our former singer and maybe also keyboarder still have some music activities.

++ Has there been any reunion gigs?

No, we didn’t make music together since 25 years. Our guitar player asked us to have some sessions again. But it is difficult if you are living in different places of Germany. But who knows…

++ Did you get much attention from the radio?

Not really. I think one of the songs of the CD “La Guardia” was once played on a radio program called DT64, that’s what I have heard from a band member.

++ What about TV? Made any promo videos?

No we didn’t make a promo video. But we often recorded our gigs with VHS videos. It is funny to watch those videos after a long time. Especially if some things went wrong during the gigs.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

We had some feedback from the local press but not a lot. Gloom of the Grave was not big enough to get some relevant attention from the press. But of course we were always proud when something was written about us in the press☺.

++ What about from fanzines?

Like in conventional press we were not really “registered” by fanzines. The only thing I remember was a review of our CD “La Guardia” in the music magazine “Zillo” in which the CD evaluation by the author fortunately was not too bad.

++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

Difficult to say…There have been a number of moments with much satisfaction for all of us. It was during some of our gigs (even in school prior to Gloom of the Grave), during the recordings or only when a new song was created.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

Bernd: If I find some time I like to do some hill / mountain hiking, cycling or skiing in winter.

++ Never been to Dresden. So I will ask for some recommendations. If  I was to visit your city what shouldn’t I miss? What are your favourite sights? And any particular food or drinks that you think one shouldn’t miss?

Dresden and its surrounding is a beautiful place to visit. It is kind of touristic here too. Some historical city part of Dresden has been rebuilt after bomb attacks in 1945 so it is definitely worth to visit the city. And the surrounding is great too, mostly with hilly areas and places for rock climbing and Nordic skiing in winter.

Regarding food Dresden is especially famous for “Christstollen”, a traditional Christmas Cake. And this region has some similarities to nearby Bohemia and Bavaria, which for example means good local beers.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Bernd: Maybe just a short comment to Cloudberry Records I think it is a very good idea to pay attention to smaller indie bands in the internet on this platform and also to bands which do not exist anymore sometimes for decades. This is rare so thanks again Roque for this opportunity of having this interview.

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Listen
Gloom of the Grave – Time to Get Away

Thanks so much to Greg Appel for the interview! The Lighthouse Keepers is of course a legendary band from Australia and probably you all know about them. But did you know Greg has just published a book about the band? It is available here. I ordered my copy, and I suggest you do. Because of that and because I like the band I also asked if he’d be up for an interview and he was! Exciting! So here it is… now if I can convince him to do a Widdershins interview next 😀
Oh! and they do have a Facebook page. Become a fan!

++ You have just released a book and a CD, I think many indiepop fans will be interested in it! Can you tell me a bit about them? Where can you buy them? What is included in the book and the CD? And there are different versions, right?

The book is basically a memoir with a focus of the band I wrote songs and played with ‘The Lighthouse Keepers’,  we played for a few years in the mid eighties in Australia.  Good fun, pretty different from what was around, and in the end I think we just got a bit lazy.  But that was the nature of the band.  It’s available (Australia and world) at https://www.spontaneousfilms.com.au/books.html

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen at home while growing up?

Much of this is in the book, and I will put in a few excerpts.  My first instrument was actually the Ukulele. Then….

my mother dates Christmas 1975 as the beginning of the end when my father re-gifted me his barely strummed acoustic guitar, although she played a part, organising guitar lessons at home every Wednesday afternoon with a vaguely sinister-looking man who got around in long socks and shorts. In our middle-class world, all good parents gave their children tennis and music lessons. And so teaching these things became a great job for anyone who was ‘interested’ in the young. My sister doesn’t agree with me about the scale of damage our music teacher, Mr Cranfield, did to our young psyches. He didn’t discriminate between the sexes either. I just knew when he sat next to me, and the creeping hand came out, I felt uncomfortable and moved a bit further down the couch. It was only years later when we talked about it that I realised what was going on.  And justice was eventually dealt out to Mr. Cranfield. He apparently ended up in prison, where he died. But that was the start of my relationship with the guitar

++ Had you been in other bands before The Lighthouse Keepers? I read about The Grant Brothers and the Guthugga Pipeline, are there others? How did they sound like? Are there any recordings?

Before Guthugga Pipeline (around 1979), which was a sort of punk band (Half covers/Half originals) and The Grant Brothers – a short lived Canberra band where I wrote most of the songs, I did whacky music tapes with Gavin Butler who was in Guthugga Pipeline with me.  They were ‘rock operas’ based on Monty Python type humour with many Australian marsupials and assorted characters.  I also made my brothers and sisters join me in a band if that counts.

++ What about the rest of the band members?

Hairy (S O’Neil) from LHK was in both the Grant Brothers and Guthugga Pipeline and continues to play to this day with the Cannanes and about 100 other bands.  Juliet was a closet singer guitarist, the eventual drummer played in a Sydney band called ‘the Particles’ which Hairy also played in

++ Where were you from originally? Canberra as Wikipedia has it?

Yes and no.  Three members myself, Juliet Ward and Hairy were from Canberra.  But we started the band in Sydney where we met ‘Blue’ Dalton and Steven Williams the drummer.  Both Sydney residents.

++ How was Sydney at the time of The Lighthouse Keepers? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

I think this is covered in the book again.  But Here

Our inner-city (Sydney) scene was a scene within a scene. It was a small world but bigger than punk in Canberra. It was also quite diverse and punks were a minor part of a kaleidoscope of creatures. Some in paisley shirts, some in cheesecloth, some in leather. Traditional garb like flannelette was popular too. Sydney smelt different. Leaded petrol fumes, wisteria, cigarettes, beer. There seemed to be other young people everywhere and not a lot of effort was required to engage with them. Everyone was your friend. Everyone also seemed to be in a band. You didn’t have to like their band—you probably didn’t—but you’d go and see them anyway. We were also united by an antipathy to whatever what was perceived as mainstream.

++ When and how did the band start? How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?

Believe it or not we got together for a talent quest at a tertiary institution I was ‘studying’ at. We won with a barking dog!  Blue joined Me, Juliet and Hairy and a guy called Tim Palmer, who became a well known ABC journalist.

++ Were there any lineup changes?

The dog and Tim Palmer left fairly peaceably we recruited Steven Williams on drums after our first recording.  The single ‘Gargoyle’.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

Excerpt

Did the Lighthouse Keepers want to be mainstream? I don’t think any of us thought about it that much. But we must have had some aspirations: they grew as our audience grew. I enjoyed writing songs, getting them played and seeing what would happen. In those days, I might write a song before breakfast and then another after it. The morning was always a good time. The late morning—to be exact. You might still have a bit of a hangover, which would loosen up the cogs of creativity. From early on, I made sure they never did become Top 40 songs. I did this by giving each song a title that was totally unrelated to any of the lyrics. This was certain to confuse any potential customers. For example, ‘Ocean Liner’, ‘Love Beacon’, ‘Wilderbeast’ and on and on through my back catalogue. I named the songs like objects or animals.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name? Is it true you originally were called the Light-Housekeepers?

No, it was done by committee and endless votes (see book).  But I did come up with the name.

++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

Quite eclectic everything from the Smiths, to Motown, to 40s American pop, and good Country and Western.  Between us the band had all sorts of records.  Hairy was a punk/Detroit fan (as well as a lot of UK stuff).  I also quite like some of the mainstream acts of the time.

++ Originally, I read, you put some tapes together before the release of “Gargoyle”. How many tapes were they? Were these demo tapes? Or where these sold at gigs? Have the songs included in these tapes been released eventually?

I’m not sure what these were.  The Gargoyle recording was a tape, and we did actually record Patsy Clines “I fall to Pieces’ at the same session.  Just never put it out.

++ Your first 7″, “Gargoyle”, came out on your own Guthugga Pipeline Records. I can tell where you took the name! But why did you decide to self-release? Was there no interest from labels? And how did you like doing the label stuff, dealing with pressing plants, distributing, etc?

From memory, we didn’t even approach a record company.  We just did it.  It was cheaper to make our own labels and do hand drawn covers.   There were hassles with pressing it, but it sold well for what we had planned.  The book has a hand drawn covered edition, to kind of recall the process.  It’s been good fun.

++ This 7″ was recorded at Dream Studios for $50! Was this your first experience at a proper recording studios? Or you all had experience? How long did it take to record the 3 songs?

Again in the book, but it was done over a few nights.  And we also did the 4th Patsy Cline song

++ “Gargoyle” actually had a promo video. Where was it recorded? And who made it? Yourselves?

his was from my Media course.  I could use the equipment and also pass units.

++ Then came “The Exploding Lighthouse Keepers” where you added Steven Williams as a drummer as well as a manager. One thing I have to ask is about the artwork, as the previous release and this one have a very particular look and feel. Who came out with the drawings?

It was inspired by the hand drawn Gargoyle covers, but this time we thought we’d just colour in one drawn version that I did actually.  I draw like a 10 year old. Stick figures etc.

++ After these two first releases the album finally came. “Tales of the Unexpected” was released in 1984 on Hot Records. I have to ask then, how did you end up on this label? And how was your relationship with them?

Some people fell out with Hot Records and particularly Martin Jennings.  But we just kind of moved on, and started a new band in the end.  They were good for us at the time and helped us get to the UK and Europe, which we would never have done without them.

++ You were now labelmates with The Triffids and The Laughing Clowns. Did that help get more attention to the band?

The Triffids were pretty good friends at that time,  The Laughing Clowns were idols of some in the band.  I think we would have felt good to be on that label. It actually had some great stuff on it in retrospect.

++ How different was recording the album compared to the previous releases? Any anecdotes you remember?

From book

we ended up doing about a week of late-night recording sessions at Paradise Studios, in Kings Cross. This was a big studio for us, but by doing it after hours we could save a lot of money. We were young enough then to do without sleep for a while. It felt like things were starting to happen. Paradise Studios was owned by Billy Field, who had a retro-sounding hit with ‘Bad Habits’. I think he put the money from that into this fairlymodern 24-track studio. He never appeared at the sessions, but the studio always had a faint smell of eighties fairy dust.

++ Then two more 7″s. “Ocean Liner” also got a promo video and you wrote on Youtube that it was a big budget clip. Is that so? How much did it cost to make?

I was joking in that Australian way of saying the opposite to what I meant (which isn’t always that funny).  It cost nothing – I did for my Media course.  I love those clips.  I think they capture the mood.

++ Lastly there was the “Ode to Nothing” 7″, and that was the last ever release, right? You also used the name of this song for a compilation released in 2011, would you say this was one of the most emblematic songs of the band? And how come this was your last release? Was there plans for more?

We didn’t plan it as the last release, but in retrospect it was a good one.  It actually sounds well recorded and warm.  Not too much Eighties effects that wrecked a lot of records in Australia at the time.  (our next band’s album a good example)

++ In 1986 Waterfront Records would release a compilation, then in 1992 Phantom Records would release a much more complete compilation. How did this compilations came together, and I wonder if the Phantom Records one is the most complete one? Is it missing anything?

It was pretty comprehensive.  I don’t think ‘I fall to Pieces’ has ever been out. It’s probably lost.  Patsy’s version is quite a lot better in memory, but still it wasn’t too bad.  Great song.

++ The Phantom compilation has this comic strip on the back cover, who made that? What’s the story of you playing at Central Park for free?

That’s me again with the ten year old styled art.  Another joke. I think I’m a frustrated comic on some level.  Sorry.

++ Oh! And who is on the front cover photo of the “Imploding” compilation on Waterfront?

Again me.  I can’t remember why we decided on that.  Juliet was the obvious choice, so we made that one.  It was the wrong one.  I didn’t really enjoy having huge posters of my head around.  But I looked a lot better in those days.

++ Are there any unreleased tracks by the band or has everything being released?

We did record only recently 2 new songs.  One ‘Hoogle Waltz’ from the old Lighthouse Keepers set, the other ‘Shadowlands’ from a musical comedy I wrote many years after the band. They’ll be available any day.

++ Oh! And how come Egg Records didn’t release your music when they come back? I mean they did release The Widdershins and included “Springtime” on the “Souvenirs from Egg Record” comp… it would have been very cool!

I not sure why not.  Nice they put anything out.

++ I think my favourite song  is “Ocean Liner”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

Check the book on that. But it’s definitely one of my favourites too.   It’s really a love song, with a slightly dark overtone.  Juliet sings it beautifully.

++ If you were to choose your favorite The Lighthouse Keepers song, which one would that be and why?

I’m going for Ocean Liner.  It just works well with bands limited skills and creates a mood.  I have about 5 I really like.  These include Gargoyle, Ode to Nothing, Time of Evil and something else.  Some of the material doesn’t do a lot for me now days.  But I’m old eh.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

I’m running out of answering energy.  But check book, it’s amazing how many. It was a couple of years of 3 or 4 a week?  Maybe not always.

++ You even toured the UK, right? Which cities did you play? Did you get a chance to do any touristy stuff on the side or it was all gig after gig after gig?

We played in London, and Leeds Uni.  It was a bit of a slog by then.   But not that many gigs, more a slog to hang around without much money in a large unfriendly city.

++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

Europe had the best and worst shows we experienced eg Rotterdam 1985…..

I do remember this Rotterdam show clearly. It was definitely the biggest audience we played to in Europe and was a great success. We’d got lucky in getting Jesus and Mary Chain’s prime slot at the festival. Not a totally compatible band perhaps. So at the start of the show, there was a bit on an exodus of crowd, but also an influx. We went down a treat and everyone was happy. We got to taste a bit of the rock star lifestyle too, backstage. The Triffids were playing this same festival and were already hardened partakers

++ And were there any bad ones?

That would be London on our first show.  From book…

20 SEPT 1985 HAMMERSMITH CLARENDON

Nick Mainsbridge, Audio guru, 2017

I hated live mixing and this was a good example of why. It was a Hot Records night in a sort of a cave. There were posters with three bands and twelve bands turned up and then they only played for twenty minutes. They’d spray-painted concrete all along the back of the stage in a curve at the back, which looks okay but if you’re a sound mixer, it’s your worst nightmare, because the sound from the foldback bounces directly off the back wall into the microphone and you have uncontrollable feedback. It was a disaster—I ended up pointing the foldback wedges at the audience and the band couldn’t hear themselves. There were twelve people there or something. It was the worst gig in the world—I felt sorry for the Lighthouse Keepers.

++ When and why did The Lighthouse Keepers stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards? I know of the fantastic The Widdershins…

After the European tour it all seemed a bit much. The usual sort of inter band friction.  Myself and Juliet broke up as a couple, which was difficult.  But we still kept going musically in the Widdershins.

++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?

Hairy has been the musical of us.  Check the ‘family tree’ at the end of book.  He’s been in millions of bands. But the Cannanes is his staple.  Blue has played on with all sort of bands including the Honeys.  Juliet has been a solo artist.  I’ve played with my brother in OneHeadJet and also made the musical comedy ‘Van Park’.

++ Has there been any reunion gigs? I believe more than a few, right?

Yes not too many. Just the right amount.  May not happen again, Who knows?

++ Did you get much attention from the radio?

Only 2 JJ (ABC as in Austraian Broadcasting Commission the public station) and the alternative stations of each city.   Definitely not commercial radio.

++ What about TV?

Again on the ABC a bit.

++ What about the press? Did they give you much attention?

Yes some.  Check the book for some press.  It definitely helped.  Even a little review in NME.

++ What about from fanzines?

David Nichols did a few articles for Distant Violins, and there’s been a few that I can’t recall.  There’s one in the appendix of the book.

++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

I think it would have to be the last show.  It was packed.  We thought we were stars.  Sydney at it’s best.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

I love putting on shows and they often involve music.  I have a lot of camera gear and sound equipment.  Some of this is for pleasure – some for work.   I guess I surf.  Especially since you can’t do much else at the moment

++ Never been to the Sydney or Australia in general! So I will ask for some recommendations. If  I was to visit your city what shouldn’t I miss? What are your favourite sights? And any particular food or drinks that you think one shouldn’t miss?

Ha – Ok.  Not many can stand the long flight to Australia.  And at the moment it’s not even allowed.   I live near Sydney but out of the city.  Australia has great coast.  It’s a pretty good place.  Is it boring?  Only if you can’t make your own fun. Which is what that band was about.   What would I recommend.  I just got back from Broken Hill.  That’s pretty amazing.  Weird, Outback, where strange characters meet.  I think they are searching for the real Australia.  But something went askew.  Lots of movies made out there.  Not all of them good.  But it’s interesting.  Sydney’s beautiful but expensive and different now.  Still US dollars go a long way here.   I think the wild side of Australia is great, yet we all cling to Cities and the coast.  Visitors seem to like the people here.   We are very civilised.  It’s much more diverse than it used to be.  For the better.   Food and drink.  It’s actually very good.   Try a coffee if you’re from the US.  Flat Whites – I think they may come from here.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

If you’re still reading this and interested.  Buy the book.  It’s graphically amazing for the price.  Writing isn’t too bad either.   It was fun to put together.

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Listen
The Lighthouse Keepers – Ocean Liner

Thanks again so much to Ian Finney for the interview! I interviewed Ian about his band Christopher as I had written about them on the blog as one of those obscure band’s I wanted to know more. I couldn’t let pass the opportunity to ask him about The Tempest, the much more known band he was in, and whose singles I really enjoy! The band released 4 singles and their album still remains unreleased to this day. A classic band of the 80s for me and very happy to learn more about them!

++ Hi again Ian! Thanks so much for being up for another interview! Are you still in touch with the rest of The Tempest members?

Hiya Roque. I’m in touch with most of the band. I lost contact with Mike but I’m on social media with Steve, Stuart and Lyn. I’ve worked with Steve since the band split and we’re in regular contact.

++ Last time we talked about Christopher so what would you say were similarities and differences between Christopher and The Tempest, if any?

The Tempest was a completely different setup to Christopher. The band was Mike’s show entirely. We all had a lot of space to add our own original parts and arrangements but the songs were Mike’s and it was mainly his gig.

Christopher and The Tempest were both guitar-based bands with similar influences. My guitar playing had evolved a lot since The Tempest and I was trying new things. I was a side man in The Tempest, a lead guitarist. I did have some creative control over what I did and there was some input from me on other things while the album was being recorded, but not as a songwriter. Christopher was my band and I was basically in Mike’s position. It was a mirror image of The Tempest.

++ How did The Tempest start as a band? How was the recruiting process?

Mike had a band called Going Gah Gah with Lyn, another guy on guitar (Pete, I think), Stuart on bass, Lyn on backing vocals and Mark Olly on drums. Mike and Lyn were from Liverpool and Mark and Stuart were Warrington-based. The band had a residency in Warrington at Abbey Green studios and demoed the songs there. Pete left the band and they were looking for another guitarist. I’d heard about the audition from the manager at Dawson’s Music in Widnes and phoned the studio and then successfully auditioned for the band.

++ You were telling me you were underage when you were in it, what about the other band members? Were you all so young?

Yes. I was seventeen, Stuart eighteen, Mike was twenty-one and Lyn was ‘ancient’ at twenty four.

++ Had the other band members been in other bands before The Tempest?

I’m not entirely sure. Stuart was a studio player and Mark Olly had been in other bands, but I’m not clear on the details with the other guys.

++ Was The Tempest also based in Halton? Or where did you usually get together? Where were the other band members from?

The band was based in Warrington but were a Liverpool band. We used to meet at Abbey Green studios or directly at rehearsals in Liverpool or London. When we were recording we were all based in hotels or guest houses in Stockport and London.

++ Were there any lineup changes?

It was like Spinal Tap. We were always changing drummers. Mark, Mick, Jon, Steve.

Mark Olly left the band just before we signed. Mick Burland was auditioned and he played on three studio tracks then Jon Sumpton was with us for a while and finally Steve Dolder (ex-Prefab Sprout) joined. It’s worth mentioning since we are from the same home town, that Damian ‘Diz’ McMullen nearly auditioned for the band but Jon came into the audition and blew Mike away with a ten-minute Jazz solo, who hired him on the spot.

++ How was the creative process for The Tempest? Where did you usually practice?

Mike was the songwriter and we either learned his songs from the demos or during rehearsals. To my knowledge nothing new was written during the time the band was signed. We practised in Warrington at first and after signing we rehearsed in Liverpool then later in London at The Clink, Nomis studios and also Lipstick Studios.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name? 

We changed the name from Going Gah Gah to The Tempest after signing and I think the record company asked us to do that. Mike thought of the name.

++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

Mike was certainly influenced by The Beatles and his passion for the band got me into them too. I was a jangle-pop guitarist back then and I was into The Byrds.

++ How did you get the attention of Magnet Records? Did their people come to gigs? Did you send demo tapes?

The groundwork for all this was done before I joined so I can’t tell you any more but demos were sent out and there was a wooing period with EMI, Stiff Records and Magnet. I was very fortunate to be in a position where I joined a band just as they were about to sign a recording contract. It wasn’t an easy ride and I certainly earned my place there.

++ And were there other labels interested in releasing your music?

Stiff Records, EMI and Magnet were interested. Magnet promised Mike more creative control so he chose them, but later we found this wasn’t true. I think if we’d signed with Stiff or EMI the outcome of everything would have been very different.

++ Your first release was the “Always the Same” 7″, right? Was wondering if this was the first time, because of your age, going to a proper recording studio? And if so, how was that experience working with Glenn Tilbrook?

We spent time with Gus Dudgeon in CBS Studios recording a version of Bluebelle before we met Glenn, so that was my first time in a recording studio and I loved it. There was a feeling of deja vu and I was completely at ease with recording.

When I was sixteen I saw a poster of Duran Duran standing in a recording studio with a stand full of guitars behind them. Something struck me about it. “This is what I want to do” I thought, and I was absolutely certain I wanted to be a recording artist. Not to be famous, but to be a professional recording guitarist. I practised so hard. This is what got me expelled from college – I was playing music all the time. I would pretend to be recording live takes in front of a tape machine. When I actually got into a studio and started recording, the engineer Pete Hammond said he couldn’t believe I’d not done it before because I was very precise with playing my riffs and licks and deadened the strings in all the right places during parts of the songs.

Glenn asked me to come up with a solo for ‘Always The Same’ on the spot and I mentioned that I’d been jamming a new phrase at home but it was partly chords. They asked me to play it and I recorded two takes then Glenn asked me to add a few bits on and it was done.

We met Glenn on October 31^st 1984 at a rehearsal room near the river. We ran through ‘Always The Same’, ‘Bluebelle’, ‘Tonight’ and ‘The Tempest’. It was a bit surreal to meet him because I’d bought every single Squeeze had released up to that point while I was at school just two or three years earlier. I loved collecting those and they were nearly all released on coloured vinyl.

Working in the studio with Glenn was disciplined and methodical but laid-back. I really enjoyed it. We socialised as well and spent time in the pub and at his place. He remains a friend and we meet occasionally when he’s in the area. He’s always been very complimentary about my playing and my work. I think he is one of the most original British songwriters ever. Squeeze are utterly unique. Pete Hammond and Femi Jiya engineered on the album. Pete is a mixing legend. He engineered nearly everything you heard on UK radio in the 80’s and he’s behind nearly all of PWL’s output. If you’ve been Rick-Rolled, Pete is the guy responsible for that. Femi went on to work with Prince at Paisley Park.

++ Many of your releases were to appear in different formats. Not just 7″s but also 10″s and 12″s for them. What was your favourite format for your music and why?

10”s were interesting because we could get three or four songs on them.

++ Who usually take care of the art for your records? And who appears on the cover of the “Bluebelle” single? And was this the photoshoot that Jill Bryson from Strawberry Switchblade helped with?

Mike thought of the concepts and professional artists developed them. I still have Mike’s original concept sketch for our first single’s cover (Always The Same).

That’s Mike on the cover of Bluebelle. That photoshoot was with Peter Arthur who was the partner of Jill Bryson from Strawberry Switchblade at the time and Jill was at the session. I loved Strawberry Switchblade. I chatted with Jill throughout the day and she learned that I was single and hinted that Rose from the band was looking for a boyfriend. I never chased it up. I can’t remember why. It’s one of those inexplicable mysteries. I think Strawberry Switchblade are remarkable for the cultural influence that they had on Japan that exists to this day. If you look at what they wore back then, you’ll see it. They aren’t copying a certain Japanese Manga style, they invented that look. The band were huge in Japan and that image obviously had a huge influence. I mentioned this to Jill fairly recently and she was very modest about it.

++ But I think I read that there actually “Bluebelle” was to be the first single that it was recorded in 1984 with Gus Dudgeon. What had happened?

The official line at the time was that Magnet Records thought Gus “wasn’t the right guy for our sound”. The truth is much different. One of the other band members had been talking about John Lennon and Gus had been a friend of John. Some things were said and I saw that Gus wasn’t impressed. Then towards the end of the week someone played a joke on Gus in the studio that he didn’t find amusing. I heard him as he turned to his engineer and said “I can’t work with this”. I’m taking a reasonable guess that he quit after that. It’s a very great shame he did because I really liked Gus and admired him for what he’d done for music. He produced Space Oddity by David Bowie, The Zombies ‘She’s Not There’, Elton John’s entire classic 70’s catalogue of songs and John Lennon, who he told me he was ‘”in awe” of. ‘Don’t Go Breaking My Heart’ was one of Gus’ songs and it’s a lifelong favourite of mine. He was a legend. I got him to autograph a copy of Elkie Brooks ‘Pearls’ that he’d produced. He was genuinely touched and flattered that I’d asked him to sign it. It was the only autograph I asked for during that time. He passed away with his wife in 2002 after a motorway accident. I still feel terrible when I think of it.

A month after the session with Gus ended we got a message that we were rehearsing in London near the river for pre-production sessions with Glenn Tilbrook. It was around the time he was going through his split period with Chris Difford and was interested in producing us. We spent a few days jamming the songs and were rehearsing next to The Cure, who we heard through the wall in the next room. We started rehearsing Bluebelle and they stopped their song and suddenly began playing ‘Boy’s Don’t Cry’ maybe because they were the same chords and they thought we were ripping them off.

++ These first two singles were released in 1985, and the next two would appear in 1986. You know there was the “C86” tape that year, and I wonder if you felt akin to what would later be the C86 scene? I can see your sound and style part of it myself, but what do you think?!

Interesting observation. We might have been part of that scene. Magnet and other things messed up a lot of things. Records were not in stores. Singles were getting saturated airplay on major national radio and people were walking into shops to buy our records and they weren’t on sale. Who knows what would have happened if people had done their jobs.

++ Then came the “Didn’t We Have a Nice Time?” single. I have to ask, where was that photo from the front cover taken?

That’s West Wycombe Forest.

++ On this single we see that Bobby Valentino played violin! How was working with him?

I think I briefly saw him. I didn’t really talk that much to anyone back then. I still don’t (laughs). He also played violin on The Bluebell’s Young At Heart. Did you know he’s the brother of Anne Dudley (Art of Noise)?

++ You made a promo video for “Didn’t We Have a Nice Time?” which is really fun! It was filmed at Wimbledon Chase Middle School! I wonder how easy it was to work with children, and was the teacher actually the class teacher? I am sure many of the kids must remember that day!

That school was also featured in the film P’tang, Yang, Kipperbang (classic British movie). It was a two-day shoot with interiors in the school on day one and exteriors on day two in a muddy field. I got food poisoning overnight and they had to hire a portable loo for me for the outdoor filming. Thankfully I didn’t need to use it but it was a tough day. One of the film crew was a bit older than me and she was giving me flirty looks but I felt like death. The kids were all surprisingly well-behaved. Thirty years later one of them got in touch with me through my blog. He was the kid scratching his head in the video. The kids loved it and lined up for autographs after the filming. A kid asked me to sign his plectrum. I was only five years older than them and had left school less than two years earlier. It felt very, very surreal. The Teacher was an actress. I think one of the band had a crush on her.

++ Then you released a cover of the Small Faces’ “Lazy Sunday” on 7″ and 12″. There is even a “Crazy Version” of this song on the 12″. Was this song part of your live repertoire? Or how come you choose to release this cover version? Were there other covers that you usually use to play?

We never played it live when I was in the band and I don’t think they did after I left either. We’d released three original songs and it was entirely our A&R man’s plan (James Todd) to release a cover version. I hated the idea. Absolutely hated it. For me it was the last straw in a long line of disagreements over artistic differences and my role within the band. I told Mike I was leaving after our studio session with Steve Levine. He tried to persuade me to stay but was quite understanding about my decision.

++ And lastly the album. What happened? Why was it never released?

The band were dropped a few months after I left and Magnet Records shelved it.

++ But as you say there are copies out. How many copies do you estimate are or were in circulation?

Who knows. A couple. A few. Maybe more. They obviously manufactured some and I’ve seen at least two copies out there for sale, both at ridiculous prices. The last one I saw online was on sale for over a thousand euros. Maybe these were test pressings – or maybe not – maybe Magnet pressed a run and have them in storage and some got nicked (stolen) or leaked. Either way, a few got out there.

++ Do you think there will ever be a chance for it to be properly released someday? Have there been any attempts to do so?

Not that I know of. Maybe some fans could contact Warners Music and get them to release it digitally. It would be nice.

++ The photography in the album looks like from the same photo session as “Didn’t We Have a Nice Time?”. Am I right? Or not?

Yes. Same photo session and sadly I’m responsible for that look. There was a meeting about what image we should have next and I said it might be interesting to try something a bit Victorian, like ‘Doctor Who’. So that’s my fault entirely. It could have been something very 80’s instead but I persuaded Mike to go with the historical look. In hindsight maybe it wasn’t so bad after all. You’ve seen what some bands look like in the 80’s. I think I was the only artist at showbiz parties with a Beatles haircut and sideburns.

++ And how different was to record an album compared to the singles?

It was the same, it just takes longer. There’s a lot of discipline involved in professional recording sessions. You need to be focused and ready to give your best performance. No messing about. You can also get asked to come up with new ideas on the spot. I love that environment. When I’m required to be musically creative I feel alive.

++ Aside from the releases you appeared on a few compilations. One that surprised me is on a Spanish LP compilation called “Ráyate”. This one has “Didn’t We Have. Nice Time”, twice, on the A and B sides. It looks like they had been DJ mixed, but I can’t say as I haven’t heard them, but have you? Do you know how did you ended up in this 1987 comp?

I’ve heard that Spanish fans love the band but this is new to me. I’ll have to check it out.

++ There are two other Spanish compilation featuring this same song. Do you know if this song was a big hit all over Spain? Or perhaps in some select cities like Valencia, where I happen to hear some UK jangle pop songs became DJ mixed and became big dancefloor hits at the discos?

I know we are popular in Spain, but not details. Again, I’ll have to check this out.

++ Then you are in a South African compilation called “Now That’s What I Call Summer” with “Lazy Sunday”. That’s quite cool. I guess that’s as international you can get and appearing next to ABBA, The Beach Boys, that must have been quite something?

It is and I’ve only just discovered this. It’s an odd release because that was from 1986 when the band was still signed and no one knew about this. It doesn’t surprise me though, that’s what record companies are like.

++ And are there more unreleased songs by the band? Aside from the album of course?

There are lots of demos that were made at Abbey Green and I also made a few demos with Mike after I left, as a favour for him. There is the unfinished Gus Dudgeon version of Bluebelle, which I own the only copy of and several other tracks which didn’t make the album. I think they are ‘The Tempest’, ‘I Cannot Be Sure’ and a few others. I have copies of all of these.

++ I think my favourite song, the only one I’ve heard so far!, is “Bluebelle”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

To be honest with you, I have no idea – it’s Mike’s song.

++ If you were to choose your favorite The Tempest song, which one would that be and why?

Always The Same, the first single. It was my first solo on vinyl and I think it is the best song The Tempest made. My mum would turn the radio up full when it came on and run to the bottom of the stairs and shout “Ian, your song’s on the radio!”. My parents were so proud of me. My dad couldn’t believe I’d got signed. He made me a wood pedal board for my guitar effects pedals and I still have it. I’ve used it for over 30 years. My parents are no longer here with us and every time I hear the song I think of their excitement and how fresh and exciting it all was for everyone in my life and in the band.

I remember coming back from London after weeks of recording. I was exhausted and homesick. It was 3am and my parents were asleep in bed. My mum knew I was returning home that night and had left a covered plate of sandwiches on the kitchen table for me with a note on it which said “eat if hungry”. I made a cup of cocoa and sat drinking it in the semi-darkness and had a startling moment of clarity. I know it sounds soft but I remember feeling profound love for my parents and gratefulness for everything they had done for me. I thought that I’d remember that moment all my life and I did. Every time I hear the song it reminds me of that moment.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

We played dozens of gigs as support: The Bluebells, 10,000 Maniacs, The Cardiacs, The Climax Blues band and The Higsons are a few that come to mind. The Higsons (Charlie Higson’s band from The Fast Show) had such a huge rider (free food, drinks etc. that a band asks for at the venue) that I thought we’d walked into an off-licence (liquor store). We played at all the major venues in the UK. The gigs at the original Marquee are ones that come to mind. We did two full British tours. The first supporting The Untouchables, a U.S. Band that had a chart hit at the time. I think that was three weeks of touring and we supported Squeeze on their Cosi Fan Tutti Frutti En Routti tour which was the 6^th to the 15^th of October 1985. We finished the tour with two sold-out nights at Hammersmith Odeon and then had a great end-of-tour party with Squeeze at some swanky private club in London. It was filled with artists, actors and BBC Radio 1 DJs. The ‘Comic Strip Presents’ actors were there. I got snapped by Paparazzi in a shot with Glenn and Rik Mayall while I was stood at the bar with Robbie Coltrane. Sarah Greene and Mike Smith were grinning at me – I was dressed like I’d stepped through a 1960’s time warp.

++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

So many great gigs. I’m proud of playing at the long-gone Marquee Club on Wardour Street. Who played there is a list of rock history: The Rolling Stones, Bowie, Queen, Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, Jimi Hendrix…the list goes on and on. Standing on the same stage, using the same dressing room. You could feel the vibe.

At King Tuts in Glasgow I walked into a room and there was a Roman Soldier in full authentic armour with two female Roman ‘Nymphs’ dressed in togas. I apologised and left the room. I have no idea what was going on.

++ And were there any bad ones?

Everyone’s strings went out of tune at one gig and it was hideous. It was insisted that we change strings each day on tour – even bass strings. There had to be one venue where the humidity and temperature caused absolute mayhem with the metal strings. We got in tune again but it caused frayed tempers onstage.

++ When and why did The Tempest stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

The Steve Levine session was the last one we all did together. I sneezed all the way through as I had terrible hay-fever.

I left the band at the end of summer 1986 and they carried on for a few months but got dropped. There were plans to record with William Orbit but it never happened. I’d had offers to remain in London and Indians in Moscow’s manager made me an offer to manage me but I turned them all down. I was secretly suffering from undiagnosed agoraphobia and I just wanted to get back home.

As you know from my previous interview with you, I formed The Snakeskins. It was a break from the discipline and stress of being in a professional band. I felt like I’d missed the middle of the 1980’s, even though I was right at the heart of everything that was happening at the time. As soon as I left I started regaining my lost teen years. I’d been in the band from when I was 17 to 19. I’d been single for three years and on a professional leash. I got a girlfriend, started writing songs and began to enjoy life. It was great. The pressure I had been under in The Tempest was huge.

++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?

I don’t think Mike did anything and he put music behind him, as far as I know. Stuart formed his own music company and wrote music for TV. Lyn formed her own band, Carbon 13, and is now solo, Steve joined The Coal Porters and is now one of the highest-paid live drummers in the UK. He also formed a music company with Martin McAloon, Prefab Sprout’s bassist (Steve is a former member of Prefab Sprout).

++ Has there been any reunion gigs?

Noooo.

++ Did you get much attention from the radio?

Tons. We had saturated airplay on BBC Radio One and played Radio One sessions for Andy Peebles, Richard Skinner (I think) and a few other BBC DJ’s who I can’t remember – I was very nonchalant about what we were doing and didn’t take much notice. We certainly weren’t strangers to BBC Maida Vale Studios.

++ What about TV? Made any promo videos?

There was a video for ‘Didn’t We Have A Nice Time and we got airplay on BBC TV on kid’s TV, The Money Programme and Wogan. Possibly others, I didn’t really pay attention to what was going on at the time.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

Every major music publication got us on board. The NME, Melody Maker, Smash Hits, No 1 Magazine, even the girl’s mag Jackie did a feature on us as well as a bunch of other UK magazines. There were so many.

++ What about from fanzines?

Not that I know of.

++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

That’s a tough question. There are so many high points that it’s hard to pick just one. For me, personally, the best thing was getting to work with so many great people.

++ Thanks again Ian! This made my day! Anything else you’d like to add?

Thank you Roque, it’s been a pleasure.

I’m looking forward to releasing my first solo music, so please keep an eye out for that on social media.

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Listen
The Tempest – Bluebelle

Thanks so much to Raoulie de la Cruz for the interview! The Casino Ashtrays was a great band he had with Laura Watling/Mazzucco (The Autocollants, Tears Run Rings, Laura Watling) back in the 90s. A proper DIY indiepop band who released a few tapes, one CD and appeared on some compilations back then. 9 years ago the great Jigsaw Records released a retrospective compilation that is a must-have for all indiepop lovers. You can still find copies here. I’ve always been a fan so I had to do this interview sooner or later… and yeah, it took a while but finally all my questions are answered!

++ Hi  Raoulie! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? I have been curious about this for years now, are you still making music? Or involved with music at all?

Hi Roque! I am doing fine…all things considered! Right before you sent in these interview questions I was actually recording some trumpet parts on my old 4-track for this band I was in called Folklore. Folklore is basically Jimmy Hughes who ran Bumblebear Records. He also played guitar in Elf Power for a few years when he still lived in Athens, Georgia. Anyways, Folklore was his band and I played trumpet in it. And then he moved to Philly, where he continued with new members. Here’s a funny story – and you can cut it out if it goes too long: When I first moved to Athens in 2005, I just kinda hung out for a couple of months before getting a job. One day, I went to go browse in the Star Wars aisle at the local Toys-R-Us (I used to avidly collect Star Wars action figures). When I got there, this dude was already going through all the action figures. I thought, “Dammit! This guy is gonna buy up all the good stuff!” He could sense that someone was behind him, waiting, so he turned around. When he saw me he said, “Raoul???? It’s me…Jimmy!” It took me a minute to register and then I was like, “Oh yeah! Hey, Jimmy!” Then he asked me, “Did you just move here???” “YES!” “You wanna be in my band?” “Sure! Yeah!” And just like that, I was in Folklore! And then while I was in Folklore, I started a super twee band called The French Toasts with my girlfriend, Missy Kulik. We mostly played covers on toy instruments. And then I started playing trumpet in another local Athens band called Werewolves. And in-between all that, I had another short-lived band called The Slow Rowboat. Up until just a couple days ago, I hadn’t worked on music since Missy and I moved to Atlanta a couple of years ago.

++ I reckon that it has been 9 years since Jigsaw Records compiled all Casino Ashtrays songs on the compilation “(Are Your Boring Ideas of Fun the Same as Mine?)”. I thought when that came out that I had to interview you. Not sure why I didn’t ask you then. But now, years after this compilation, how do you feel these songs, most recorded during the 90s have aged?

I still like most of the songs on there, so I guess they aged pretty good? That is to say, I’m still proud of the songs and recordings. Not sure how Laura (Watling/Mazzucco) feels, though! I still like the lo-fi quality of the recordings. To me, it’s indicative of a DIY “Just do it!” kinda approach to writing and recording. We didn’t let limitations in skill, equipment, etc. stop us from recording and sharing our music. It was like, let’s just get these ideas and sounds down on tape and have fun making something. PUNK ROCK, Y’ALL!

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen at home while growing up?

I remember that my parents had 8-track tapes that they would play in the van. I remember there was a best of Elvis tape that got played a lot. And I think a Sha Na Na tape. My mother had this 8-track of piano instrumentals that she liked to listen to. They were all old Latin-American standards like “Tico Tico”. And then when we weren’t listening to 8-track tapes, the radio would always be tuned into some sort of oldies station. Definitely listened to a lot of oldies from the 50’s and 60’s growing up.

My first instrument was probably a toy piano! I remember having one as a child. Funny, because when Missy and I started up French Toasts many years later, we decided to use this toy piano that she had rescued from a trash heap as our main instrument. It came around full circle! In elementary school, I had a chance to learn an instrument and I guess I sort of decided to play trumpet. So, from about 5th grade all the way up until the end of high school, I was involved in school bands, learning how to play trumpet and read music.

++ Had you been in other bands before Casino Ashtrays? What about the rest of the members? If so, how did all of these bands sound like? Are there any recordings?

Long before the Casino Ashtrays was my first real band, Honeychurch – named after Helena Bonham Carter’s character, Lucy Honeychurch, from the movie “A Room With A View”. We were heavily influenced by the whole “MADCHESTER” scene that was al the rage at the time. Xavier, our keyboardist, was very good. Classically trained pianist. Because of him and the organ parts he would come up with, we were able to channel the spirit of The Charlatans. There are a couple of recordings of Honeychurch. The music sounds good, but the lyrics are crap, so they’ll probably never see the light of day. HA! I was still learning how to craft good lyrics with that first band.

After Honeychurch came Cha Cha Cha. That’s the band that I started with my friend Rachel Thorson, who was a later member of Honeychurch, and our friend, Mike Perez. Cha Cha Cha originally started out as a zine that came with a tape of music that Mike and I made, with different singers for each song. The tape was more popular than the actual zine, so the project morphed into a full-time band, with Rachel as the lead singer. We were often described as a “lo-fi version of Luscious Jackson”, which was a fair assessment. We released a bunch of tapes through my cassette label, Popgun Recordings, before being picked up by Japanese label, Motorway Records.

When Casino Ashtrays started up, Laura was already in Autocollants with Ed Mazzucco. They sounded like dreamy, shoe-gazey pop. Brian Medford joined the band towards the end, playing saxophone and drums. Brian and I were in high school marching band together, so that would be the only other band he was in before joining up with us.

++ Of course you were also involved with Popgun Recordings, and that’s something I hope we can talk about in another interview, as well as your other bands. But I wonder, what did you enjoy the most playing in a band or running a label?

Playing in bands was definitely more fun than running a label! I mean, I kinda got burned out on both eventually, but I got tired of running the label long before my interest in playing in bands had waned.

++ How was your town (was it Riverside, California?) at the time of Casino Ashtrays? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

Riverside was okay. It’s mostly a punk rock kinda town. Aside from the bands that me and my friends were in, there weren’t many local bands that we liked, HA! There were a few venues like Spanky’s and The Barn at UCR (University of California, Riverside), but again, it was mostly punk. To be honest, unless you went to one of the house shows that Laura or I put on, there probably wasn’t much chance of seeing indiepop bands at that time. This was all long before The Summer Twins became such a big indiepop hit in Riverside. As far as record stores went, there was none better than Mad Platter Records at that time – and everyone from the core group of Popgun bands all worked there at one time or another, including Laura!

++ When and how did the band start? How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?

Both Mike and Rachel of Cha Cha Cha had radio shows at the University of California Riverside (UCR), 88.3 FM KUCR. We all used to hang out at the radio station while they did their shows. Mike played a lot of funk, instrumental hip-hop, electronic music, etc. while Rachel played mostly shoegaze, indie rock, and indie pop. Laura used to listen to Rachel’s show and would sometimes call the station to put in a request. And then one time we invited Laura to come hang out at the radio station. It was around that time that I asked her if she sang and she said that she was actually the singer in band (The Autocollants). I asked her if she would be interested in singing on a couple of songs I wanted to record and, to my surprise, she was like, “Sure. OK!” I think that was sometime during 1996. Cha Cha Cha and Popgun Recordings started in 1995, so it would have been 1996 when we all first met Laura.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

I think I wrote most of our original songs. I would write the songs and maybe record a rough demo for Laura to listen to. She’d learn the singing parts, and then we would quickly record them. And then she would come up with vocal harmonies or additional instrumental parts. And then we’d quickly record those, too. My little Porta 03 4-track was quite mobile and I could set up anywhere. We probably mostly practiced and recorded at my parents’ house, but I think we also recorded and practiced at Laura’s from time to time. I just remember the process being really organic and quick. Feels like most of the recordings came about very quickly. We weren’t super perfectionists about the recording process, and I liked the recordings to be more raw and lo-fi, so I think that helped in that regard.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name? 

The name “Casino Ashtrays” came from a lyric on “Bus to Vegas”. I had written the song long before the band existed: “The rain fell / from the sky today / and my heart felt like / a casino ashtray”

++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

I know for a fact that I was listening to a lot of Lois, The Softies, Astrud Gilberto, The Beautiful South, and The Sundays at that time. They were all definite touchstones.

++ Most of your releases came out on your own label, Popgun. I was wondering if that was always the intention, or did you shop for labels at all? 

It was always the intention to put recordings out on Popgun first, just so we could get these songs out into the world as quickly as possible. Parasol Mail Order had started distributing Cha Cha Cha cassettes through their mailorder catalog already, along with a few other Popgun releases and compilations. So, it was natural to just release things through Popgun Recordings. The cassette releases acted kind of like demos, anyways, and they sometimes led to certain acts getting picked up and released on other labels.

++ The art of the releases of Casino Ashtrays is quite peculiar, at least there are two cat photos and one snowy ball sort of souvenir with a jackpot machine in it. Were these your own photos? Who designed them? 

I designed the covers on all the Popgun cassette releases. The first one, “Bus to Vegas”, features a photo I took of a snow globe I bought in Las Vegas. I used to collect snow globes from all the places I visited. The back cover is a photo of a slot machine that was in my friend Amber’s living room. On the “Just Like Me” e.p. I used an image of a Siamese cat I found in an old book. I would sometimes buy books from the thrift store that had interesting images, and I would sometimes use those to make the the sleeves for Popgun Recordings or show flyers. “Live from 88.7 FM KSPC” was mostly done with silly stickers and images cut out from an art history book. “Long After The Commercials Have Ended” uses commercial clip art from the 60s and 70s. Those also came from an old book. And lastly, our CD release of “Bus to Vegas” on Twee Kitten Records features a photo of my then-girlfriend’s cat with a roulette wheel that her family had. We just wanted to tie in the whole kitten thing with the casino thing.

++ Your first tape was “Bus to Vegas” from 1996. Were the two songs on it the first ever recordings by the band? Or had you had previous songs made? Also, did you two ever take a bus to Las Vegas?

Yes, those were the very first two Casino Ashtrays recordings. I had just finished recording all the instrumental parts when I met Laura. It was very good timing. I have been to Las Vegas many times. And I have travelled by Greyhound Bus many times. But I’ve never actually taken a bus to Vegas! I just kinda combined those two experiences in the song.

++ The second tape was “Just Like Me EP”. Now we find 7 songs! A proper mini-album. This is your longest release, but at the same time it makes me wonder, why didn’t you ever release an album? Were there plans to do one at any point? 

Well, in general, I just prefer singles and short releases over full albums. As far as Popgun was concerned, it was just a way to put out more releases in a short period of time. I always thought of Popgun as a sort of a “singles-only” type lable. Also, dubbing tapes was less of a chore with shorter releases!

++ “Bus to Vegas” was reissued in 1998 with an extra song by a different label, Twee Kitten Records. How did you end up working with them? And whose idea was to re-release this tape? Was this third song “Invincible” from the same period of the two other songs?

It was Scott Z from Twee Kitten who approached us, I believe. I don’t remember exactly how, since it was so long ago. I think he had gotten a copy of the “Bus to Vegas” tape through Parasol Mail Order and then wanted to re-release it as a cd on his label, but with an extra song to make it different than the original release. I had already been working on “Invincible” for a release on Popgun, but then ended up recording it for the Twee Kitten instead.

++ And that release was the only one on CD as well. Did you have a preference between cassette as most of your releases or CD? 

I think if someone had offered to put out an entire Casino Ashtrays album on CD or vinyl we certainly would have done it. Popgun Recordings was set up as a “cassette-only” label mostly as an issue of cost. It was simply cheaper and faster to release music on cassette. And so most of the Casino Ashtrays catalog was released on tape.

++ In 2000 you released “Soundwaves & Radiowaves” which were 6 songs recorded live at 88.7 FM KSPC. How was that experience? Was it your first time recording a live session in the radio? How did this opportunity come to be?

That was fun, if a little nerve-wracking! By that time, both Laura and I were seasoned performers, mostly with our other bands. It was certainly my first time performing live on radio, not sure about Laura. I don’t remember how the live session came about. I think that was something that was set up with Laura. Anyways, the show was nerve-wracking for me because the DJ who was on beforehand was Franklin Bruno!

++ Your last release came out in 2004, “Long After the Commercials Have Ended”, it was 4 years after your previous release. Why did it take so long?

“Long After the Commercials Have Ended” was basically a small collection of loose ends. The cover of “Sleepyhead” by The Cat’s Miaow was supposed to come out on a tribute compilation that some other label was putting together. We waited several years for this release to come out and, by that time, I think we had waited long enough and was convinced that the tribute CD would never see the light of day. So, I thought I should, at the very least, put it out on Popgun just so people could finally hear it. We were very proud of our version! “Must See T.V.” was from a CD compilation that Japanese music magazine Beikoku-Ongaku put out. I added it to the tape to help flesh it out. And then “Books on Tape and 45s” was basically a demo that we recorded before Laura moved up to Santa Rosa, California. A finished version would’ve had more instrumentation – like drums, keyboards, and sleigh bells. I didn’t want the song to languish without a release.

++ When it comes to compilations you did appear on a few and one was in a Beikoku-Ongaku compilation, with the song “Must See T.V.”. How did the Japanese find out about your music? Did you get to sell many tapes there? 

Initially, Japanese music fans found out about Popgun because of the releases we were selling through the Parasol Records mail order catalog. That’s how Cha Cha Cha ended up getting signed to Japanese label, Motorway Records, which ended up bringing more attention to Popgun Recordings. Eventually, a few indie record shops in Japan, such as Propeller in Nagano and King Kong in Osaka, started stocking select releases.

++ Then there was your first time on vinyl with the song “Gilded” on “The Crayola Catastrophy” compilation 7″ released by another California label, Kittridge Records. I wonder were you close to them? Was there a close-knit scene in California back then?

The indie pop scene in Southern California was a pretty close-knit, I would say. We came to know Doug Jones who ran Kittridge because he used to come to the Popluck house shows that either Laura or I would curate and host. A lot of folks from the local scene would come to those shows, definitely. Everyone was collaborating and vibing off each other. It was a great time!

++ And were there more songs recorded by the band that didn’t end up on the compilation? 

Aside from the “Live at KSPC” recordings, Not many. Maybe only one song, I think. One that was written by Laura that she chose to leave off the compilation.

++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Dress Code”, with its cool trumpets, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

Awww, thanks! The song is about that joyful feeling when you meet someone who’s into the same weird or obscure stuff as you are. All music tribes/scenes usually have an unspoken “dress code” or style that comes with fandom. That’s really fascinating to me.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Casino Ashtrays song, which one would that be and why?

That’s a tough one. I really like “Gilded” because of the beat that Laura plays on it. To me, it kinda has a “funky drummer” groove to it. And I really like our vocals – I like how we trade on and off, I like the counter melodies, Laura’s harmonies…there’s just a lot of nice layering in the song. The lyrics aren’t too shabby, either. HA! There’s a lyric that Laura sings on it that goes “Are your boring ideas of fun the same as mine?”…we ended up using that as the title of the anthology that Jigsaw Records put out. I also use that lyric as the tagline on my personal Instagram account.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many? 

Not too many, I don’t think. We probably played almost all the house shows we put on, though.

++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share? 

Playing at the inaugural San Francisco Popfest in 1999 was, hands down, the best gig we played. No doubt. We were the first band to go on, on a Friday night, opening for an amazing roster of bands which included The Fairways, Monterey, The Crabs, and Marine Research. I remember that the Bottom Of The Hill club was sold out and packed from the front of the stage all the way back. And you could just feel and see the excitement and anticipation in the crowd. It was probably the most nerve-wracking show ever, but also one of the most fun times performing.

I have a couple of great anecdotes about this particular show, but this is the best one. Okay, so, the previous year, back in 1998, I was living and studying abroad in Oxford, England. Literally, one of the first things I did when I arrived in Oxford was to get my hands on a local weekly that listed all the gigs and concerts in town. I was ready to see some live music and have some fun! To my surprise, I saw that fellow Twee Kitten labelmates, The Relationships, were playing a show in Oxford at this club called >>The Point<< at the end of the week – my very first week in town! What were the odds? So, I ended up going to the show, of course.

After The Relationships played, I introduced myself to the lead singer, Richard Ramage. I complimented their show and said, “By the way, we’re labelmates on Twee Kitten. I’m in this band called Casino Ashtrays!” and Richard, with a surprised look on his face exclaimed, “What the bloody hell are you doing HERE???” We all had a good laugh and many pints were shared that night. Well, I soon learned that Richard used to be roommates with Amelia and Pete from Heavenly…and he suggested that we all get pints one day! And of course, I didn’t turn down that opportunity! I barely remember that day with them at the pub because I think I was so star struck. But I do remember vividly Amelia saying, “Well, maybe someday we’ll get to play with your band!” I thought to myself how great that would be…and that it would probably never happen. But then the next year at SF Popfest it DID happen!

++ And were there any bad ones?

There was this one show that we did with The Boyish Charms, Poundsign, and the Aislers Set. The line-up itself was awesome. And the music and performances were awesome. But the venue was at this all-ages punk club somewhere in Long Beach, California. I think it was called the PCH Club. Anyways, it was basically a rundown warehouse space by the train tracks that was literally crawling with rats. Hardly anyone showed up, so it was basically bands playing to the bands. That was probably the worst show we ever played.

++ When and why did Casino Ashtrays stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

Casino Ashtrays ended pretty much after Laura moved upstate to Santa Rosa, CA. It was just too hard to do the long-distance thing at that time. The internet wasn’t a thing like it is now. Plus, Laura was busy with The Autocollants, Monterey, her own solo stuff and other musical projects. And I was busy being in a bunch of other bands, too. Besides doing Test Pilot, I was in Winnebago, Red Pony Clock, The Easy Outs, a band called The Summer Flings…and I did a bunch of one-off things with different bands. And then when I moved to Athens, Georgia, I started a band with my girlfriend, Missy Kulik, called The French Toasts. And soon afterwards I joined the aforementioned Folklore. Then, both Missy and I were briefly in a band called Gemini Cricket. Somewhere in there, I started a band called The Slow Rowboat that lasted a hot minute…long enough for the band to play one show! And then the last band I was active in was this local Athens band called Werewolves.

++ Has there been any The Casino Ashtrays reunion?

No, there hasn’t been a reunion. It would be fun, though, if we could pull one off!

++ Did you get much attention from the radio? TV?

Well, we did play that one live show at KSPC!

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

No. None from any traditional newspapers or magazines.

++ What about from fanzines?

From fanzines, definitely. Mostly in Japan and Sweden, I think!

++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

The biggest highlight would definitely be Casino Ashtrays performing at the 1999 San Francisco Popfest. Such a fun and crazy time! We were so grateful for that opportunity.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

IS there anything else besides music? I like to travel, go to museums, work on craft projects, root around in antique shops, garden, hang out with Missy and our pets. Mild-mannered stuff.

++ I know you are based now in Atlanta, and I have never visited so would love to hear your recommendations as a local, what sights one shouldn’t miss? Food and drinks one should try? 

Well, it’s not Atlanta, but if you’re a hardcore music fan, you should definitely spend a day wandering around Athens, GA. Do that, first. If possible, sign up to take one of the music history tours of the town, if available from the Welcome Center. Maybe catch a show at the world famous 40 Watt Club or at the Flicker Theater & Bar a couple of doors down from there. And of course, spend some time and money at Wuxtry Records and at Bizarro Wuxtry, the comic book shop above the record store. Hiking around the State Botanical Gardens in Athens is a lovely way to spend the day, too. Vintage and antique finds can be had at Starlite Showroom.

We’re still fairly new to Atlanta, so our recommendations are going to be pretty basic and touristy! You should visit the King Center, for sure. It is the final resting place of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and there are exhibits honoring his life and work, along with exhibits for Coretta Scott King and Gandhi. We really like The High Museum of Art. Highly, recommended! The Georgia Aquarium is cool too – it’s crowded, but totally worth it if you’ve never been. I know you’re a soccer fan, so maybe try to catch an Atlanta United game while in town! Or catch a show at The Earl or Terminal West. Record shopping at Criminal Records is a must.

Food-wise, we’re vegetarian. So, in Athens, we highly recommend eating at The Grit. It is a vegetarian Mecca of sorts, especially for road-weary bands. Even if you’re not vegetarian, you have to eat there if you are in town. We also like Heirloom Café and Condor Chocolates. Drinking-wise, we like Rook & Pawn because it’s where all the nerds hang out. But also check out Flicker, Little Kings, and World Famous if you like your drinks with a side of live music.

In Atlanta you should basically just go up on Buford Hwy to eat. It is a long stretch of road bursting with Asian and Latin American restaurants serving up authentic cuisine. There’s also Krog Street Market and Ponce City Market – both are basically fancy food courts, but in the best possible way. Our favorite place to eat is just up the street from us – Arepa Mia. Yummy arepas served up Venuzuelan-style. Drinking-wise close to us in downtown Decatur we have the Brickstore Pub with a wide selection of craft beers and S.O.S., which is this really great tiki bar. And we have My Parent’s Basement which is a bar-arcade-comic book shop combo. It’s where the freaks and geeks hang out. Our kind of people!

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Thanks for the interview, Roque! Apologies for taking so long to get back to you!

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Listen
Casino Ashtrays – Dress Code

From left to right: Wayne Booth, Jon Brown, Ian Finney, Andy Starkey.

Thanks so much to Ian for the interview! I wrote about Christopher not so long ago and just a week ago Ian got in touch with me! He was very kind to let me listen to more of the wonderful songs he recorded with Christopher and even better was up to tell me the story of the band on this interview! Hope you all enjoy this!

++ Hi Ian! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Still making music?

Thanks Roque I’m good, thank you. Yes I’m still making music.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen at home while growing up?

My first musical memory is of me and my family visiting an aunt when I was about three years old and seeing her upright piano. I went nuts. I’m not sure why but I had to get on it and play. They literally had to drag me off it. A few years later I saw The Osmands performing Crazy Horses on TV and I made a pretend synthesizer out of an old shoe box. When I was fourteen a friend of my sister had an ARP Odyssey (a retro synth) and I spent five minutes on it and was blown away. Despite my interest in keyboards the guitar was my first instrument. When I was thirteen my first girlfriend dumped me while I was sick with a cold so I wrote a song about it and taught myself to play on an old acoustic guitar.

When I was growing up, radio was my main thing and I loved music. It was music typical of that era which was pop, soul, rock, punk, disco, new wave and easy listening. I got turned onto other stuff through my brother’s record collection, like prog and classic rock. When I was teaching myself guitar I’d play along to Rush, Blue Oyster Cult, Santana and Sex Pistols albums.

++ Had you been in other bands before Christopher? If so, how did they sound like? Are there any recordings?

I formed my first band with Lee (Latch) Parker and Simon Deakin when I was fourteen and we were a punk band. I was also in a great band with Jim Free and Barry Cox when I was briefly at college. It was a freeform rock band and we made a few practise tapes. I got expelled from college then got an audition and ended up with a record contract. I was in The Tempest. We were signed to Magnet Records which is now part of Warners but at the time it was the biggest independent label in the UK. I was seventeen years old when I signed the contract and my parents had to co-sign it too because I was legally a minor. The Tempest were an 80’s acoustic pop band, I guess similar to Aztec Camera. I found out we have a kind of cult status in Japan and Spain. Japanese fans go nuts over memorabilia and the vinyl is quite collectible. The unreleased album sells for over a thousand dollars. We made four singles and an album and were produced by Gus Dudgeon who had produced David Bowie’s Space Oddity and all of Elton John’s 70’s classic stuff. Glenn Tilbrook from the band Squeeze produced our album and first three singles and Steve Levine produced our last single. I’m lucky to have worked with some really great producers and musicians and I learned a lot from them, especially in sound production and studio recording.

After I left The Tempest I formed a band called The Snakeskins with some new friends I made at my old college. I didn’t tell anyone I’d previously been signed. We sounded mostly like indie guitar pop but the sound eventually changed into something more like REO Speedwagon and I left. The Snakeskins were together on-and-off for about six years and we made quite a lot of demos but never released anything. We nearly got signed by Island Records and I think we lost out because we didn’t have any management. The MD of Island Records asked us all why should he sign us and we just sat there saying nothing. I left The Snakeskins around December 1989.

++ What about the rest of the band members?

Jon was in a band with the drummer Andy McClure who went on to form the indie band Sleeper with Louise Wener. I’m not sure about the other guys.

++ Where were you from originally?

I was born in an area of Liverpool called Prescot but I was brought up in the town of Widnes in Halton. I’ve lived here all my life.

++ How was the Halton at the time of Christopher? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

Halton was thriving musically at that time and we had great nightlife. Everyone was listening to REM, The La’s, The Stone Roses and ‘Madchester’ was going full throttle. The Stone Roses Spike Island gig was a couple of miles away from where I lived. I didn’t go but I heard it. There were at least three indie clubs in Halton – The Cherry Tree in Runcorn and Storeys and Players in Widnes. With the pubs also doing indie music nights you could party from Wednesday to Saturday – four full nights, and we often did. It was crazy. I had some of the best times of my life then.

My favourite band at that time was Jennifer Fever, Jane Weaver’s first band. I’d hang out with Jane in a small cafe and shop called The North. It was kind of idyllic. A couple called Adrian and Nikki ran it and they sold records, tie-die clothing, food and hippy paraphernalia. I spent entire afternoons in there with a coffee talking about music and comic books. At first I had no idea that Jane played or wrote music until there was a gig by her band in the cafe. They were great. I thought she had something good going and asked if I could produce them.

++ When and how did the band start? How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?

I called the local newspaper asking to put out an ad and instead they ran a story on me. I was kind of locally famous a few years before for signing a big recording deal when I was in The Tempest and I guess they remembered me.

A few people contacted me. Jon was already an old school friend and I asked him personally. We found Wayne and Andy through the newspaper. Mark Kinsella was also a member but he left before we started playing live in ’91. Around October 1990 we began the first rehearsals. By December we were ready to gig.

++ Were there any lineup changes?

Later on we recruited Martin Burns from Jennifer Fever but I guess the biggest lineup change was when I left ! The band hung together for a while but eventually split.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

With Christopher the songwriting process was pretty much how I’ve written all my life, except that I’m not as lazy or scatter-brained these days. I’d get an idea, some kind of inspiration, and I’d run with it musically. Everything was written in my imagination or on guitar. I’d record ideas on a small tape recorder or a portastudio – a multitrack tape recorder. We practised in a local rehearsal place called Pentagon Studios, run by Ade Sleigh and his father, Stan and it was a great place. One day I walked into the studio and Alan Crookes from the hit band Poacher was sat there with Ian McNabb from The Icicle Works listening to my Christopher demos. Alan showed interest and invited me to record but after he copied my drum patterns from a drum machine he avoided my calls. I never heard from him again. A few years later one of those Christopher riffs from the demo also appeared on an Ian McNabb song. It’s always great to inspire people.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name? 

It was a solo thing for me at first and I didn’t want to use my own name so I settled on using my middle name Christopher instead. Then when I recruited the other guys I just stuck with it. Trying to find a good name for a band that hasn’t already been taken is the hardest thing.

++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

From my point of view as the songwriter it was everyone who I’d been listening to at that time like REM, The Byrds and The Beatles. I’ve never really been that conventional a songwriter to be honest. I don’t listen to a lot of music, don’t play any covers and I discover new artists very slowly. Popular music at that time also had an effect on my writing, especially the production style. I was also listening to The Bangles album ‘Different Light’ throughout the summer and that guitar sound got into my head. They took the 60’s influence from The Byrds and Beatles and mixed it with west coast sunshine pop vocal harmonies and I loved it. Coincidently a few years later I was briefly in the Coal Porters with Sid Griffin, who had been in a relationship with The Bangles’ Micky Steele and had also shared a house with their drummer Debbie Petersen.

++ As far as I know there were no releases by Christopher, is that right? Why was that?

Well apart from the track on the Idea album, we never got that far. I had a knack back then for giving up easily. I wasn’t ego-driven and I’d get downhearted quickly. We had my brother-in-law managing us and he really helped us out a lot and I’m still grateful for that, but we didn’t have the right breaks when I was in the band. We sent demos out to lots of major companies but heard nothing back. I think we sent around thirty or forty tapes out to every major and big independent label in the UK. I left the band even though I was writing prolifically at the time. Months later I heard from Wayne that the major label Polydor had contacted the band after I’d left and were interested in us but our manager told them I’d left and the band was finished. If he’d called me at the time I would have been straight back in a flash.

++ Was there interest by labels at any point to put your stuff out? Did you consider self-releasing?

As I mentioned, Polydor was interested but it wasn’t followed-up. Self-releasing in those days meant considerable costs,for recording, artwork and pressing. It was an expensive business, not like today where anyone can release something digitally and get it distributed globally for almost nothing.

++ So the song “Touch” appeared on the “What’s the Idea” compilation. How did you end up working with Idea Records?

I got a call from my manager Greg and he said they were putting something together with local artists but we had to move quick as there was a deadline. I went in the studio, recorded the song on my own and then produced Jennifer Fever. The tapes went out and we did some gigs. That was it. My manager handled the business side and we liaised with Dave Wycherley, who was Halton Council’s Arts liaison at the time. I’d later heard that they wanted “the two best artists in Widnes” and they picked me and Jennifer Fever. I remember that this pissed off some people.

++ Idea Records, from what I understand, was put together by the St. Helens Community Arts Team. Who were they? What else did they do for the arts in the area? Were you part of it?

I’m sorry to say I didn’t know much about it, but it was a great idea and hats off to them for making it happen. I wasn’t interesting in those kind of details at the time. I was just a kid intent on writing and performing. Business never interested me.

++ So it was a tight scene and you even collaborated with other bands, like producing Jennifer Fever. Was there a lot of collaboration between all of you? What other bands were in town that didn’t appear in the compilation that you were friends with?

At that time, I don’t recall other bands apart from Jennifer Fever and The Snakeskins, who I’d previously been with. The main scene I was involved in socially was around 1987-89, when I was with The Snakeskins. There wasn’t that much collaboration but I’ve always been interested in helping out other artists and still do.

++ Back to “Touch”. When and where was it recorded? Were other songs recorded in this session?

It was recorded in Pentagon Studios Widnes around late Spring or Early summer 1990. The band wasn’t ready and the song was under a deadline so I recorded the song by myself and played everything on it in one afternoon. Adrian Sleigh engineered it and I produced.

++ Were there demo tapes by Christopher?

We made two tapes of three songs each. The first was early in ’91 and the second was made later in ’91 after I sold some recording equipment to fund it, which in hindsight was a mistake. We recorded both demos at Bus Stop Studios in Leigh where in fact I met my then-girlfriend, who was a trainee sound engineer. The studio was run by a guy called Herman, who was kind of famous for having thrown up over Queen’s hairdresser backstage at some event.

++ And are there more unreleased songs by the band?

Not the band as such, but there are demos that I’d recorded myself which were intended for the band. I still have boxes full of demo tapes.

++ I think my favourite song, the only one I’ve heard so far!, is “Touch”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

I was twenty-three years old and my first long-term relationship had ended. I’d started dating another girl but I felt numb. I put what I was feeling into words and I discovered that songwriting could be cathartic and after that I began to start expressing myself with my music more intimately, emotionally. I think it was the first honest song that I wrote.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Christopher song, which one would that be and why?

It has to be Touch. It was very much part of my life at that time and summed up how I was feeling. Writing introspectively like that kind of makes me feel exposed but I like honesty in music.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

As Christopher, probably around eight. Pre-Christopher, hundreds.

++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

The second gig we ever played, Christmas or new year 1990-91 at Storeys in Widnes was one of the best gigs I’ve ever done. Jane Weaver was there, John Snaykee (of Manbreak and ex-Snakeskins) and Chris Leckie from Adlib Audio was doing the sound. Chris is one of the best live engineers in the world today and he tours with A-List bands. They all loved it. Everything came together just right and it was wonderful gig for everyone.

Anecdotes? Well we played a gig at St. Katherine’s Teacher Training College in Liverpool and it was full of girls in the audience. One of them took off a stocking and threw it onto the stage while we were playing and after the gig there was a serious discussion trying to figure out who it was intended for. It was all scientific stuff – her throwing direction, the intended trajectory, aerodynamics, etc.

++ And were there any bad ones?

We played in St Helens at a pub known for hosting hard rock bands. It looked like it was full of Hell’s Angels and we were an indie band. The atmosphere was menacing and after the gig a barman told us that was a great response because usually the audience threw things at the band.

Another gig was so poorly publicised that only five people turned up. No one knew the gig was on and those that came to see us were only there because they were friends of the band. We just cracked on and did the set.

++ When and why did Christopher stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

It was around summer 1991. I left the band because I’d lost my best friend, a lot of time, money and I’d had enough. The other guys carried on for a month or two and then split up.

I rejoined The Snakeskins for a while. I formed a band called Fiasco with Dave Pichilingi and played a John Peel session with them. I rejoined the Snakeskins again, then they split and me and Andy from the band formed Muddyhead with ex-Fishmonkeyman bassist Terry Lloyd. We were managed by China Crisis’ Eddie Lundon. I was in The Coal Porters (The Long Ryders’ Sid Griffin’s band) very briefly, around two weeks I guess. In the early 2000s I briefly formed a band called Penny Blue, then in 2006 I got an offer from Tommy Marolda to record in Las Vegas and interest from The Killers management, but due to family commitments and my health at the time I couldn’t do it.

Since then I’ve been working on various projects, producing music for computer games and writing orchestral pieces for documentaries and The History Channel. When Glenn Tilbrook played in my home town we met before the gig and he asked me if I wanted to perform one of my new songs onstage. I was nervous as hell but I did it and it gave me the confidence to play live again. I’d been having problems with agoraphobia and leaving the house and it was a big help in getting me interested in playing live music again. After that I formed The Coralaines and recorded a Rock and Roll album because it was something I always wanted to do. I used all the right period equipment and production methods to get an authentic sound and it was great fun. We played a few great gigs thanks to Mike Badger (from the La’s). We performed at the Jacaranda club’s anniversary which was a big deal as it was one of The Beatles’ first venues. Travelling and rehearsing was really tough for me and it took about two years to play two gigs but it was worth it. The band split at the end of last year so I started working on new songs for myself. I’ve done some remote guitar sessions over lockdown and I’m currently working on my solo music. I have lots of plans.

++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?

Wayne and Andy went separate ways and did their own thing, I think it was mainly cover bands. Jon was writing his own music and Martin moved to the states.

++ Has there been any reunion gigs?

No, I never really considered it. I’d never say never though, to any of my previous bands.

++ Did you get much attention from the radio?

We got interviewed on a BBC Radio show called Hit The North which was hosted by Mark Radcliffe who is a BBC DJ legend. He loved ‘Touch’ and said with the right backing it could be a hit. Coming from him, it was a great compliment.

++ What about TV? Made any promo videos?

Not with Christopher. I made one with The Tempest and I’m making new ones for my upcoming music. Film-making is a growing interest for me.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

Yes, the local press was great but we never got any national coverage.

++ What about from fanzines?

We weren’t approached, though there were a few around at that time. I honestly think we weren’t around long enough to make an impression.

++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

Being on the IDEA album and definitely the second gig at Storeys at Christmas 1990-91.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

Strictly-speaking music isn’t a hobby for me as I work in it professionally, but I do love composing orchestral pieces. I taught myself orchestration about twenty years ago and it’s the purest form of musical expression I know. Apart from music, I have plenty of interests and hobbies. Art, particularly impressionism, art deco and art nouveau. I trained in Art before I was expelled and I’ve always been fascinated by it. I was a huge Salvador Dali fan when I was a kid and tried to paint like him. Alphonse Mucha and Edward Hopper are other favourites. I love film, all film, classic fantasy and horror, certainly the classic Hollywood movies and all French cinema. I adore nature and animals. I like photography and gaming, especially RPGs -both computer games and pen paper and dice RPGs – and I’ve been a comic book geek since I was a kid. I love the work of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, Jim Steranko and Alex Ross. Alan Moore is phenomenal. Kurt Busiek’s Astro City is a recent discovery and I think it knocks the ball out of the park. I’m not a TV person, but I’m nuts about classic 60’s and 70’s TV like The Avengers, Batman, Doctor Who and all of Gerry Anderson’s work. I’m also heavily into French 1960’s pop music. It combines two of my favourite things, 60’s music and France. I tend to slowly discover music that I’ve found on my own. It’s great when that happens. There’s a universe of music out there that I’ve never heard and I think that’s amazing.

I also get lost in the internet and often wander down rabbit-holes of weirdness that sometimes yields good things. I find the internet inspirational, crazy, terrible and fascinating. I’m also fascinated with Paris at the end of the nineteenth century during the Belle Epoch and 1950s America.

I have tons of interests and I never get bored. The only problem is time. There’s never enough of it.

++ Never been to the Halton or the St. Helens area. So I will ask for some recommendations. If  I was to visit your city what shouldn’t I miss? What are your favourite sights? And any particular food or drinks that you think one shouldn’t miss?

Generally Halton is a quiet place and it’s not a tourist haven. There are old places around Halton like Norton Priory, and Farnworth Church which was built before 1066 and we have an historically great tradition of Rugby.

I spent my younger years in Crow Wood Park and Sunny Bank, The Bongs (an area of open hilly land nearby) and later Pex Hill. As a kid or teen I’d ramble around with friends, walking or running everywhere. I still love walking in Victoria park. It’s an old Victorian park and it can be a magical place. It also has a great ice cream shop.

I haven’t been into town for food in ages, but Marie Barrows Fish & Chip Shop is legendary. Donatello’s in nearby Warrington makes the best pizzas I’ve ever had in my life and Eureka, the Greek restaurant just out of town is amazing.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

I played guitar on some remote sessions during lockdown recently for an old friend and Joe Walsh from the Eagles said he loved my guitar style. That was such an amazing thing to hear. You can’t buy compliments like that.

I’m also recording new music – please keep an eye out for that.

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Listen
Christopher – Touch

Thanks so much to Dominic Silvani for the interview! Penelope’s Web was a superb indiepop band in the 80s that released a self-released EP and then another on Cherry Red. In 2014 the band released a retrospective album with a bunch of unreleased tracks on Firestation Records. I thought that it was better late than never to get in touch and find out more about this terrific bands that left many songs that should be considered C86 classics!

Oh! and do check their Facebook page!

Just last week I wrote about the Isle of Wight band Cassie on the blog. It didn’t take long, as you see, that Hugh Lewis, the drummer, got in touch with me! And even better he was up for an interview! So here it is, the chance to learn a little bit more about this obscure powerpop band that left a classic 7″ that now has just been reissued!

++ Hi Hugh! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Still making music?

Thanks for your interest in Cassie. I’m very well!!! Sadly I’m not involved in the making of music anymore although I did stand in on the drums for a Turkish band a couple of weeks ago, really enjoyed that

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what was your first instrument? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen at home while growing up?

I must have been 6/7 when my Mum first took me to a folk night.Loved it and we went quite a few times after that. It was 1972 when I pestered my parents to buy me my first 45’ Starman by David Bowie.
Played about a bit on the guitar in 1977, within a few weeks I wanted to play the drums. Had a handful of lessons, but after that used to watch drummers play when I could, and then lots of practice.

Early 70’s glam rock!! Bowie, Faces, Rod Stewart, Stones, Who, Slade, Sweet. Mid to late 70’s Punk/new wavw. Early 80’s: NWBHM

++ Had you been in other bands before Cassie? I read that you all were in a band called Flirt? How did it sound like? Are there any recordings?

Yes Hunter, you can hear the material we did on isleofwightmusic.com, made my live debut with them in late 79′.

++ And aside from Flirt, were you all in any other bands?

Flirt was the same as Cassie, same line up, it was Wilf Pine our manager in the early 80’s who got us to change our name. As mentioned I played in Hunter originally, also Warrior a NWBHM band, sadly there are no recordings.Also Rendezvous- go to Isleofwightmusic.com and you can hear everything I recorded with them

++ Where were you from originally?

I was born in Bromley, Kent, UK, but we moved to the Isle of Wight when I was about 2 years old.

++ How was the Isle of Wight at the time of Cassie? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

The IOW is a holiday destination, it was always great in the summer, quiet in the winter. There were loads of places for bands to play in those days.

Local bands I liked were The Pumphouse Gang, Last Straw, Thin Red Line

Studio 4 in Ryde was the best!!!

Stacks of them at the time – Prince Consort, LA Babalu Club,Crown Inn, Royal Sandrock, Eight Bells, Solent court etc etc

++ When and how did the band start? How did you all meet? How was the recruiting process?

We think about 76/77

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

Nigel wrote the riff, Debbie would have the lyrics down,Me and Eric would sort out the rhythm section. In a little village called Binstead, in a converted shed

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name? 

Wilf Pine who signed us to a.k.a records changed us from Flirt to Cassie

++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

Blondie, Pretenders, Kim Wilde??

++ So early on you signed a deal with Video Records and even a publishing deal. I don’t think that is quite common these days, so quite curious how did you caught their attention? Through demo tapes? Gigs?

It was a demo we recorded late in 79’.

Radio victory a south coast radio station featured us and played the demo, Video Records heard it from there I think!!

++ But for some reason the songs you recorded for Video Records never pressed on vinyl. The label folded, right? What happened? How did the band take this blow?

No they never got out. Yes that’s right, ran into financial problems. To be fair in our stride, although we were all pretty gutted.

++ After this you went to record demos for Wilf Pine who was Black Sabbath’s manager. How did this relationship happen? And how was that recording session?

To be honest I can’t remember how Wilf got involved!! One day he wasn’t there the next he was!!

Arnie’s Shack in Poole, 3 tracks were recorded.The A’ Side , ‘B’ Side plus Falling which was to be a follow up single

++ Again for some reason you couldn’t get a record deal, right? So in 1982 you self-released a 7″ on your own A.K.A. Records. How did this work out for you? How did you raise money? Was the 7″ sold? Or was it mostly for promo copies?

Not well, the label was nothing to do with the band more Wilf’s project. There was no official release, and from what we can tell hardly any pressed, no media interest.

No idea, Wilf paid for the recordings. We don’t know anything about sales as there was no feedback, certainly no royalties paid.

++ There was no sleeve for it, right?

Nope, everything done on the cheap!!!

++ And did A.K.A. Records name mean anything?

Don’t think so, if it did I don’t know what!!!

++ Then there was interest from Dakota Records. But again nothing came out of this. What happened? Was there interest from any other labels?

Yes. The band never had any management again when it all finished with Wilf so nobody drove the business side of the band!!

No the band called it a day after the Dakota thing never materialised!! 3 Labels and nothing to show for it, I guess we’d had enough by then

++ The Isle of Wight Music website have all your recorded output, 12 songs. Well, I have to ask, is that all your recorded output or are there still unreleased recordings by the band?

Not anymore they don’t, we have asked them to take them down.

I think including the single and B side there are a total of 18 songs

++ And from where do these recordings in that website come from? Different demo tapes?

Yes from 80 to 84

++ And aside from the 7″ you put out, did you appear on any compilations?

The band no. I also appear with Rendezvous on the feet on the Street compilation

++ This year a reissue of the 7″ came out on Reminder Records. I only noticed that it is a US based label! I am curious about the story of how this release came together? How did the label track you down?

Yeah great isn’t it!!! Our fourth label !!!!! Yes from Brooklyn, New York City.

They heard the song on Yo tube, saw us on isleofwightmusic.com and got the band members names from there.After that they found that Nigel Hayles is no longer traceable as he sadly passed away in 02’ Eric Biggs has no social media presence at all.Debbie Barker is now married and obviously had a different name Debbie Coles. That left only me they could traceI spoke to the Labels CEO Jeremy Thompson in December last year about it all, from there as they say ’the rest is history’

++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “Change of Image”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

Great song.

Who knows, Debbie wrote the story!!! It’s about female empowerment

++ If you were to choose your favorite Cassie song, which one would that be and why?

“Hold Me” or “Find a Way”.  I think. Just really like the groove of both

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

Yeah at one stage, three times a week

++ You even got a six month residency at the Royal Sandrock Inn in Nilton. How did this happen? How many gigs did you play there? Did you have a big local following?

That’s right. The owner of the pub saw us at a different venue, liked us and asked us to play there. No idea, I guess once a week for 6 months, around 24/25 I would think

Not really, but we were very popular in Niton lol!!!

++ And were there any bad gigs?

Plenty lol!!! Sometimes you’d hear ‘“ Your shit you are”

++ When and why did Cassie stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

I think we’d had a gutful by 84. Yes Rendezvous until 86 time.

++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?

++ Has there been any reunion gigs?

No

++ Did you get much attention from the radio?

A fair bit, but only mainly local stations

++ What about TV? Made any promo videos?

Nope

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

A little bit at the time

++ What about from fanzines?

Nope

++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

We wrote some catchy tunes and the fact that people seem interested in them 40 years on is great!!!

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

My main other love is football, I’m a qualified UEFA ‘A’ Coach and have earned a living in football for over 20 years.

++ Never been to the Isle of Wight. So I will ask for some recommendations. If  I was to visit your city what shouldn’t I miss? What are your favourite sights? And any particular food or drinks that you think one shouldn’t miss?

The Isle of Wight Festival!!! Brilliant festival. It’s a stunningly beautiful Island

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Nope I think we’ve covered it all pretty much, thank you for your interest in Cassie!!!!!

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Listen
Cassie – Change of Image

Thanks so much to Paul and Iain once more! Just a week or so ago we did an interview about the fantastic Radio Ghosts, the band they were in back in the early 80s in Scotland. Then in the mid-80s they would move down to London and form A Tune A Day and released a 7″ record. I actually had written about A Tune A Day on the blog many years ago, so it was great to finally learn more about the band. It is time to find out more about them!

++ Hi Paul and Iain! Thanks so much for being up for another interview! How are you? Are there any plans for this summer, even in these strange times?

Iain: We are both busy working on new Radio Ghosts songs. (The Radio Ghost are dead: long live the Radio Ghosts). We have dozens and there are still more creeping in unbidden all the time. We are trying to burnish a selection of the brightest and shiniest to be released in the not too distant future.

Paul: I’m hoping to go for a short walk this summer, possibly round the block, or maybe the park. Don’t want to get my hopes up though.

++ Last time we talked about Radio Ghosts, so just to put this in context, the Radio Ghosts ended as a band in 1982 and when did A Tune A Day start as one? Were you involved with any music projects in between?

Iain: I moved down to Eastbourne, a little seaside town on the South coast of England to work for a publishing house down there. Paul visited a few times and decided to move down too. It took a couple of years or so to get the band up and running, so mid-eighties or thereabouts.

Paul: To rewind a wee bit, after Radio Ghosts split, Iain and I started dabbling with some new musical ideas, and enjoyed it enough to start a new band together. We even got a new drum machine (a little Boss DR-55 Dr Rhythm, gear trivia fans), which turned out to be marginally more programmable but somehow less fun than our original Radio Ghosts one. So we asked Craig, the Radio Ghosts drummer, if he wanted to join us, which he did. So for a while we were three-quarters of the Radio Ghosts, reunited, but without the main frontman and songwriter. Iain stepped up brilliantly with the songs and vocals, but there was a bit of an instrumental gap without Martin’s guitaring. So we spotted an advert in a music shop (or possibly in Melody Maker music paper?) from a local keyboard player looking for a band. This turned out to be Paul Piacentini, who was a bit of a keyboard wiz, if not particularly in the right kind of New Wave/post-punk vein as us at the time. But we made a good noise together, started rehearsing, recorded a rough demo and even played a gig at the local Doune Castle venue. Then Iain moved down to Eastbourne…

I carried on with Paul Piacentini in Glasgow, as Bamboo Shoots, for the next two or three years, making demos and doing a few gigs. I visited Iain in Eastbourne a number of times, and in early 1986 we made a demo at a local Sussex studio, and I liked it so much I decided to move South to start a band down there with Iain. That was A Tune A Day.

++ Who else was in A Tune A Day? And how did they end up playing with you?

Iain: I recruited a friend from work, Nick Fuller on guitar, and we went through one or two drumming candidates, including a machine and a psychotic chef, till we eventually found Martin Scott by advertising, when we moved to London.

Paul: I think Iain and Nick had done a couple of small local ‘acoustic’ gigs before I moved down, but when ATAD started properly we got a full PA and a drummer. We quickly became regulars at one of the town’s best small venues (there wasn’t a huge choice – of venues or bands), which was a pub called, this is true, ‘Bilbo Baggins’. The highlight of our brief Eastbourne period was probably playing at an open-air festival in the middle of a Napoleonic fortress. It was like a toy village version of Pink Floyd at Pompeii.

++ So you had moved to London and that’s where A Tune A Day starts as a band. What prompted your move? Was it because of music? Studies? A change of scenery perhaps?

Iain: Again, work made it possible for us to live, work and play in London. By day Nick and I worked for a big publishing house in central London and by night we played the London circuit.

Paul: I’d only been in Eastbourne a few months when those bastards announced that their sodding publishing jobs were moving to London. But I didn’t want the band to just fall apart – again – so I moved up to London too. And we went from strength to strength. Or at least from low-strength to medium strength.

++ Whereabouts in London did you settle at?  Did you both move at the same time? Were you flatmates? Or lived close by?

Iain: We were all relatively close in South London, near Clapham Junction, Balham and Tooting and able to easily meet up and play.

Paul: I slept on Iain’s couch for a few months, pushing the tolerance of him and his girlfriend, and then got a bedsit in Balham/Tooting Bec, just a train-stop away from Clapham Junction.

++ Were there any bands that you liked in town? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

Iain: Being in London gave us the chance to see loads of bands as well as all the other delights on offer there. It’s a great place to be when you are young and free and have a bit of money in your pocket. We were busy playing in all the places up and coming bands and those slightly more established played, the Rock Garden, Dingwalls, the Mean Fiddler, a place beside the Town and Country Club called the Timebox and many more.

Paul: It was a bit of a revelation, living and playing in London. When you grow up elsewhere, in Scotland for instance, you heard about these legendary London venues of the time – Dingwalls, The Rock Garden, the Mean Fiddler. And you imagine they must be, if not exactly lined with gold, at least big, plush and a cut above any of our local venues. But then you get to play there and you realise they’re just like any other small scabby ‘toilet’ venues anywhere, with dodgy equipment, watered-down beer and revolting toilets. And you never got paid anything – or very little. Sometimes bands even had to ‘pay to play’, to help cover a venue’s running costs. It was a bit of a racket. But we loved it all anyway. And we were in London, which enormously increased the chances of record label A&R people coming to see you play… more of which in a minute I’m sure.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name? 

Iain:  I can’t remember how we came up with it but it’s the title of a series of music tuition books. The unprepossessing oddity of it appealed to us. We have always been suckers for quirky and odd.

Paul: It was, I think still is, the name of a series of instrument tutoring books. It only means something to people who know the books, and it would raise a rye smile, if we were lucky. Although I did once hand one of our demo tapes to Scottish actor Robbie Coltrane (Hagrid in the Harry Potter films – he’s not so tall in real life), and he belly-laughed and said, “A Tune A Day! Llovve it.”

We did find it very difficult to get the name across to anyone who didn’t know the books though – especially when we said it out loud. With our Scottish accent, apparently it sounded to English people like we were called ‘Tuna D’. We should probably have just changed the name to that.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

Iain: Anyone who plays in a band for more than a moment will discover that rehearsal rooms are mostly vile cesspits housing horrible sound equipment, designed to crush your spirit and leave you bleeding hope and creativity onto their sticky carpets. We were lucky in finding a nice clean rehearsal room with decent gear a stone’s throw from Millwall’s football ground where they brought you drinks and sandwiches and were nice to you.

Paul: Yes after months of trying all kinds of rehearsal dives around London (most of them under railway arches for some reason) we were lucky to find one that didn’t smell like a sewer or electrocute us. The Music Room in New Cross it was – they were very nice to us. Charged us a fortune, mind, but with a smile and lots of tea.

As for the creative process specifically, at that time it was mainly Iain writing the songs (I wrote the odd one too), and then he would show us what he’d written and Nick and I (and whoever the drummer was at the time – probably Chris by then) would create and add our parts to suit the song.

++ And who would you say were influences in the sound of the band?

Iain: Too many to mention

Paul: Here’s an odd story. The first time we played the Timebox at the Bull & Gate (a now-legendary indie venue in north London), which would probably have been late 1986/early 1987, someone in the audience said to us afterwards, “You must be REM fans?” And Iain and I looked at each other and said, ‘Who are REM?” They were apparently some American cult band that had made a couple of albums, but weren’t that well-known yet. So we were obviously a bit like REM, before most people knew what REM were like – including us.

We didn’t think we sounded like anyone, but I guess it was quite a clean-style jangly-guitar sound at the time, compared with some of the more raucous things we’ve done before and since.

Iain: It was around that time we bumped into Alan McGee at a London gig, the guy who discovered and managed Oasis. I had known him slightly in Glasgow. I went for a pint with him and some of Primal Scream and they were all banging on about REM; they had just seen them live. I went out and bought an album after that and finally found out what they sounded like.

++ Your label was The Clapham Omnibus. Was it your own label or was it someone else’s?

Iain: That was our own label.

Paul: Yes just us – with only one recorded release, as far as we know.

++ I was quite curious about the name of the label when I wrote about the 7″ some time ago. One thing that I was a mystery to me is that the address on the sleeve seemed to be more in the area of Tooting or Balham, not Clapham. Am I right? And the other mystery to me was the catalog number, FARE 37. I was told there was a 37 bus there. Was it a bus you usually took?

Iain: Both man and omnibus are theoretical. “The man on the Clapham omnibus” is a phrase used in court cases a hundred years ago as a guide to what the man on the street might think in a given situation.  “The accused was observed to propel his bicycle along the high street in a state of undress, balancing a hedgehog on his head whilst playing the banjo and singing Rule Britannia. I put it to you that the man on the Clapham Omnibus would consider this behaviour…odd.” (Yes, I made that up, but you get the idea). An omnibus can be a collection as well as a vehicle and the local connection made sense too.

Paul: So yes we lived near Clapham, and there was indeed a local 37 bus, so the label name and catalog number made us laugh. Laughs were in short supply, it was the 80s.

++ The only songs you released, “I Am Going Home” and “I’m Not Going to Get Out of Bed In the Morning” were recorded and mixed by Lance Philips. In which studio were they recorded? And how was working with Lance?

Iain: Lance was great. He was a friend of Nick’s who just happened to be a trainee engineer at George Martin’s extremely impressive Air Studios in central London. He had the freedom to use and thereby learn the studio in downtime and we made full use of that. When Mark Knoplfler and Elvis Costello, who were recording there at the time, amongst others, went home for their tea, we arrived and worked on our record into the night.

Paul: And this was when Air Studios was still at Oxford Circus, right in the middle of London, before they moved out to some leafy suburban church. Proper historical landmark it was – and you felt a real connection to musical history being there. We didn’t do the whole single there though, mainly just mixing and overdubs – the rest was done in a tiny studio in Hackney where the engineer slept in a sleeping bag on the control room floor. Not during the session, I don’t think.

++ The cover photo, taken  by Jane Skinner, where was it taken?  Which pier is this? who is the person that was photographed?

Iain: That is a picture taken by our friend Jane of my then girlfriend Isabel by Eastbourne pier. It seemed to reflect the bleak homesickness of the A-side.

Paul: A lot of that pier was later destroyed in a fire. We had nothing to do with that.

++ Aside from the 7″ released in 1989, were there demo tapes released? Maybe sold at gigs? Or compilation appearances? Or was the 7″ the only thing that went public?

Iain: We had a few demo tapes but did not release anything else to the public.

Paul: Yes we had three or four other demo tapes, which of course I’ve still got in some form, somewhere.

++ Speaking of the 7″, how many copies were made?

Iain: More than we needed.

Paul: Probably 1,000, I think. I had boxes of them stacked up a wardrobe in my bedsit for months. Maybe years.

++ And how come there were no more releases?

Iain: If the world had beaten a path to our door demanding more releases, they would have been forthcoming, but that path remained unbeaten and that door remained shut, never again to open.

Paul: It was quite expensive to make your own records, even then, and we were rubbish at asking people buy them, even at gigs – so we didn’t shift enough to cover the costs. We hoped we’d get signed and get an advance to make more, but that didn’t happen.

++ Are there more recordings by the band? Unreleased songs?

Iain: Yes, but not the recording standards of the single, which had five figures of studio time costs behind it (even though it actually cost us nothing)

Paul: Probably about another 10 songs that are decentish demo quality, but never released.

++ You said you were very nearly signed by Virgin Records. What happened? What’s the story with them?

Iain: You tell that story Paul

Paul: Well… We never had a manager or an agent so I was the one doing all the gig-booking and record label contacting, sending out demo tapes and singles. Most often we’d get a straight, standard rejection letter, occasionally with an extra, personalised comment added by hand if you were lucky (still saying no, but they quite liked something or other). Now and again an A&R person would say they’d come and see us play live. Sometimes they even turned up. So we were playing a Saturday night gig at the Clarendon Ballroom in Hammersmith – now demolished, but seemed semi-derelict even then. It was a good gig though, we played well, and just as we finished the last song, before we’d unplugged our guitars, this guy leapt onto the stage (a good two feet off the ground), rushed up to me with his hand out. Not in a threatening way, as you might expect, but enthusiastic-like. He said, as he shook my hand, “Ronnie Gurr, Virgin Records – call me on Monday morning.” And then he rushed off again. I was a bit in shock, and didn’t really sleep that weekend. This was it, I thought, we were about to arrive in the big time. Monday morning came, I was up early, and I’m thinking, how early do A&R guys get to work? Not 9am surely. Prob not even 10am. 11am seems too late though, like we’re not interested. I opted for 10.30, phoned Virgin, got through to Ronnie, and he says, “Sorry, who were you again?” Having to remind him, and re-sell ourselves on the phone from scratch on a Monday morning, to a probably hungover record exec with a hazy recollection of the weekend… It was never going to end well. We never heard from them again.

I was also phoned at home by the boss of GoDiscs records, a fairly successful 80s label – but that turned into a dead-end too.  We were destined just to be cults, with a capital L.

++ I think my favourite song of yours might as well be “I’m Not Going to Get Out of Bed in the Morning”,  so what’s the story behind it?

Iain: In my foolish and curious youth I studied philosophy. I neither enjoyed it nor covered myself in glory in that study and the only area that spoke to me was existentialism. The song is about that youthful search for the meaning of life, namechecking Albert Camus and Jean Paul Sartre in as non-po-faced way as I could manage.

Paul: Great song – Iain is a criminally under-appreciated songwriter. Even by us. No, we appreciate him. It’s the rest of the world that doesn’t know what it’s missing.

++ If you were to choose your favorite A Tune A Day song, which one would that be and why?

Iain: I suppose our signature song was My Friend. That is the one that got us gigs and attention and usually started or finished our sets. We would have released it at some point if we had gone the distance. We tried a couple of times but I am not sure we had a definitive recorded version though.

Paul: My Friend was always a classic. When we sent that out on an early demo tape, we were phoned up for an interview by a music journalist called Andy Darling, who worked at London mag City Limits at the time. In his review of My Friend he wrote something like “Music that makes you want to kick Coke cans down the street.” I think he meant in a feel-good way, not in blind fury. But I’ll take it either way.

There were some other great songs too – Run Round In Circles, from our first ever demo tape. One Man’s Ceiling, from a later demo. Enid Blyton Lied. Buster Keaton In A Polyester Suit (a title that even made John Peel smile.) No one but Iain could have come up with those songs.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

Iain: We played a lot of gigs around London, having already played quite a few on the South coast

Paul: Yes we did a lot of the ‘indie circuit’ gigs in the late 1980s – including the Mean Fiddler, Dingwalls, Rock Garden, Timebox, Hype, George Robey, Cricketers, so many I’ve forgotten most of them.

++ And what were the best gigs you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

Iain: If I think back to those gigs it is details that I remember. There was a promoter called Jon Fat Beast (his choice of name) who booked us and introduced us, who would smear baked beans into his enormous naked belly and other such distasteful antics to get attention. Jason Bonham, John’s son and later replacement in Led Zeppelin wanted to jam with us at one gig. We said no. At a gig at the Mean Fiddler a young woman right at the front of the crowd where no-one could see, was making highly lascivious gestures at me as I tried to concentrate on singing and playing. But mostly I remember standing in the lights playing guitar and the brilliant feeling that being there making that music gave.  Unbeatable. Who needs success, approbation or sales when you have that feeling? Well they would have been nice but not everyone gets close to what we did have.

Paul: Jon Beast, the Timebox promoter, was very good to us – his public persona was of a chaotic self-destructive extrovert, but he was also a nice, hardworking, helpful guy, trying to give a leg-up to as many new bands as possible. An enigma. He died a few years back, way too young.

The Jason Bonham incident was weird – it was some naff nightclub we were playing in Eastbourne (might have been called Tuxedo Junction). After the gig these very drunk guys approached us and said their mate they were with was Jason Bonham (son of Led Zep drumming legend John), would we let him play drums? And I was thinking, hang on, first of all, how do we know it’s really Jason Bonham (this was probably 1987, and he wasn’t that well-known) – why would he even be in a club in Eastbourne? Why would he want to play with us? So I’m thinking chances are they’re just taking the piss. And besides, in the unlikely event that it really is Jason Bonham, he’s just going to show us up. So anyway, we said no. That’s a kind of claim to fame, I guess.

The best gig ATAD never did was on the day that a big hurricane hit southern England, in October 1987. We were due to support the great Wilko Johnson in Hastings that night. But the roads were blocked with fallen trees, and we couldn’t get there. Damn shame.

We did once support the Rainmakers (a popular American pop band of the era who’d just had a hit with Let My People GoGo) at a big concert hall in Folkestone – that was fun.

++ And were there any bad ones?

Iain: Oh yes.

Paul: I think I’ve blanked most of them out. I did turn up at completely the wrong venue once. Just the once. We played so many gigs in so many venues that they all began to kind of merge into one in your head. So when I walked in, with my bass case, there’s these other, unfamiliar musicians there, starting to set up their gear. And for a split-second I thought, what do these guys think they’re doing? Then I immediately realised my mistake, turned round and walked out without saying anything. I can kind of imagine what they were saying about me as I left. Fortunately the ‘proper’ venue wasn’t too far away…

I also lost a bass combo amp after a late-night gig once. Because my amp was so big and heavy, and I didn’t have a car at the time, I sometimes asked the drummer to take it to his house after a gig. Unfortunately this one night he was so knackered when he got home, when he’d brought his drums in from the car he just went straight to bed – forgetting that he’d left my bass amp sitting out in the street, on its own, all night. And it wasn’t there in the morning. I still wonder sometimes who on earth would just walk off with a large bass amp that they randomly found in the street in the middle of the night, but you know, it was London.

++ When and why did A Tune A Day stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards? I must say I am very curious to hear the Potato Underground someday…

Iain: Paul became the editor of a music magazine, Nick became a millionaire businessman, having meetings with Boris Johnson and other undesirables, Martin became a lawyer and one of Paul McCartney’s management team. And I had pencils to sharpen and other such pressing matters to attend to. Life gets in the way.

Paul: I started working at a musicians magazine called Making Music, and eventually became the editor – so writing about music ironically started taking up more time than actually doing it.

But the main reason ATAD stopped was that Iain decided to move – again – this time back to Glasgow. And I just thought, enough is enough, I can take a hint. Even though I clearly can’t.

(Once back in Glasgow Iain went on to form a band with his two brothers, called, intrepidly, The Bain Brothers – and they even recruited Martin on guitar for a while, in a semi-reunion situation. But he might not want to talk about that. Families, you know.)

Meanwhile, down in London, one of my colleagues at the music magazine, a guy called Jon Lewin, asked me to start a band with him and a couple of friends, and we did some gigs around London as The Potato Underground. We also briefly went under the name ‘Crap’ – but we decided that people might assume it was an ironic bluff name, and they would expect us to actually be shit hot virtuosi. It wasn’t, because we weren’t. Good songs though. We did some very weird distorted cover versions too, like thrash punk versions of Kraftwerk’s Model and Pet Shop Boy’s Left To My Own Devices… Very strange, but fun.

++ What about the rest of the band, had they been in other bands afterwards?

Iain: Nick has just re-emerged and got in touch this very day in a band called Cutwater.

Paul: I think Nick has been in that band, under various guises, pretty much ever since the ATAD days. We did have a couple of brief reunions with him, to play a couple of parties and even make a short demo in about 2000.

++ Did you get much attention from the radio?

Iain: We did the odd radio interview but I don’t think we got much if any airplay.

Paul: Yes I seem to remember we were interviewed by BBC Radio Sussex, but I have no memory of what was said. And we did stalk John Peel outside the BBC studios in London one night, so we could personally hand him a demo tape. He liked the song titles, don’t think he ever played it on air.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

Iain: No

Paul: Well apart from the Andy Darling stuff in City Limits, as mentioned above. And we had a short review piece in Time Out once too, can’t remember who wrote it. They came and took a photo of us in my scabby bedsit kitchen too, I recall.

++ What about from fanzines?

Iain: And no

Paul: Mmmm, don’t think so, but possibly, somewhere…

++ Looking back in retrospective, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

Iain: I refer you to my earlier answer in regard to how it feels to do this thing.

Paul: Mostly the above – making a record, working at Air studios, doing some fun gigs, playing the London gig circuit, almost getting signed…

++ Lastly one non-music question, one about football. Do you support any teams? Do you think Scotland has a chance to qualify to the next World Cup?

Iain: I watch the odd international game but have never been a fan. Glasgow has this ridiculous Celtic/ Rangers divide and there was always too much accompanying nonsense for me.

Paul: I admit to being a bit hooked into that partisan nonsense when younger – I’m still a big Glasgow Celtic fan, but just in a footballing sense, sensibly.

As for your second question – it seems unlikely Scotland will ever qualify for anything ever again! Not sure how that happened. They had some of the greatest players in the 60s and 70s (Celtic were the first British team to win the European Champions Cup, in 1967, and Scotland regularly qualified for tournaments in the 70s and 80s – more often than England at one period.) But I guess they haven’t invested enough in training for young talent, or whatever, I don’t know. It’s frustrating anyway. So we might stick to the music – we have a bit more control over that.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

What about you, Roque? Have you played in many bands, made your own records, as well as releasing other bands? And how come you’re interested in obscure bands from olden-days Scotland? :0)

Thanks for the invitation anyway – it’s been fun reminiscing. All the best to you.

PS – we like your list of ‘beliefs’ too:

Cloudberry believes in:
+ unrequited love
+ systems of resistance
+ sense of community
+ DIY ethics
+ international socialism

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Listen
A Tune A Day – Im Not Going To Get Out Of Bed In The Morning