Thanks so much to Neil and Nigel Packer for the interview! I wrote about the London late 80s, early 90s, band Lobster Squad on the blog some time ago. I had discovered a trove of great recordings on Soundcloud and I was very curious about the band. They hadn’t released anything and there was very little information about them on the web. Luckily, Neil contacted me a few weeks ago and was keen on doing the interview. Best of all, both brothers answered the questions!

++ Hi Neil and Nigel! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

Neil: Very good thank you Roque although it feels a little strange to be talking about Lobster Squad again after all these years. I am no longer involved with the playing of music but I still listen to a great deal of it.

Nigel: I still love music, but I haven’t played the guitar regularly for years. Once or twice in recent years Neil and I have rented a rehearsal studio with friends for a jam session, but that’s about it.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

Neil: My earliest memories of music would be from about the age of 5 and of listening to my parents’ record collection. This would have been about 1966 / 1967 and it was probably not the most hip selection of vinyl from that period, but to the 5 year old me they were magical, James Last, The Fiddler on the Roof and The Music Man soundtracks, Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass, and best of all was a record by a Columbian Band “Los Corraleros de Majagual, Y Sis Estrella’s” that my father had brought back from a trip there. In addition to these there was the endless cycle of Library music from the tv test cards and children’s programmes. To this day I still adore all of these things.

By the age of 11 I was  buying and listening to Glam Rock, and by the end of secondary school it would have been Prog Rock, I started art school in 1977 the year that The Sex Pistols released God save the Queen, but contrary to popular myth Punk Rock didn’t sweep aside everything that had gone before, or at least it didn’t for me. I loved it dearly but I was also exploring and listening to other music from the 60s and from the folk, classical and jazz world.

By the time I moved to London in the early 80s I was listening to and trying to make much more experimental music of my own, noodling around with old tape recorders and broken radios to try and create ever more weird sonic soundscapes but with no real understanding of musical theory. About this time Nigel and I began writing, (although I use that term very loosely) more conventional songs inspired by the fledgling indie scene in the UK and these songs would become the backbone of early Lobster Squad.

My first instrument was a guitar, I got it when I was about 6 and thinking about it now it was a pretty shoddy instrument. It had an action like a suspension bridge and even for my older slightly more accomplished self it would have been unplayable. I discovered however that you could slide a bottle up and down the fretboard, bypassing the awkward frets which made a pleasingly rich and plaintive sound that I had perhaps subconsciously heard somewhere previously. This was after all 1966 and the tail end of the British Blues Revival.

By the late 70s I had upgraded to a more playable guitar and I taught myself how to use the fret aspect of the instrument using Bert Weedon’s play in a day. We all did, didn’t we?

Nigel: I was born in 1966, so my earliest musical memories are of listening to pop songs from the very late 60s/early 70s on the radio. I also had a few children’s records – my favourite was called Sparky’s Magic Piano. I also remember a lot of great theme tunes from children’s television programmes, such as White Horses, The Magic Roundabout and Robinson Crusoe. The Banana Splits TV show was also a favourite.

My first instrument was a snare drum, followed by a toy keyboard. When I was in my mid-teens I got a second-hand drum kit which was a fantastic purple colour. I played drums in a covers band with two schoolfriends, but we never played any gigs.

I was originally more interested in playing the drums than guitar, but I eventually began playing around on an old acoustic guitar of Neil’s. I learned to play some chords from a teach yourself book – Bert Weedon’s Play In A Day (in reality it took a lot longer). I was given a copy of The Beatles’ songbook when I was about sixteen. Some of the chords were very difficult to play, but it did at least get me thinking about how songs are structured.  I began to work out chord sequences to songs by other bands and started writing my own songs when I was about seventeen.

The first band I really fell in love with was Slade. This was when I was about six or seven-years-old. I used to watch them on Top of the Pops and loved their showmanship, plus Noddy Holder’s singing, of course. The next band I became a real fan of was Queen, around the time of Bohemian Rhapsody. The first album I ever bought was News of the World a couple of years later. I got into The Beatles, Stones and The Who during my teenage years, along with Jimi Hendrix, Free, Bob Marley, Pink Floyd. I also liked a lot of contemporary bands at the time, such as The Jam, The Specials and Human League.

For a while I was into heavy rock bands (Led Zep, Deep Purple, AC/DC, Rush) and prog bands like Yes and Genesis. At that time I didn’t really think about forming a band, because the musicians I was listening to were completely out of my league. That began to change when I started to get into indie music (Joy Division, New Order, Husker Du, The Jesus and Mary Chain). I realised that it was possible to make interesting music without being a virtuoso musician. It was all about putting chords together in pleasing ways. I loved the sense of melody in many indie bands, and the home-made, DIY quality of their music.

I started writing songs when I was listening to a lot of REM and The Smiths, which can be heard in Lobster Squad’s sound.

++ Had you been in other bands before Lobster Squad? What about the other band members? Are there any songs recorded?

Neil: Lobster Squad was my first and only band. There were many band members who came and went, some of whom had been in bands slightly higher up the food chain, but I don’t recall anything significant.

Nigel: In the early 80s, Neil and I used to record stuff on a tape recorder at home under the name of The Piles, but it was quite experimental and I’m not sure they could be called songs in the usual sense of the word. By the late 80s we were writing songs more seriously.

We were living in a pretty dull suburban town, and so there wasn’t much to do beyond making music. We didn’t really know any musicians at that time – especially playing indie music. Indie was more of a niche movement back then and not the dominant force it became in the Britpop era.

When we moved to London the isolation ended. There were many people around with the same taste as ourselves. Most members of Lobster Squad had been in bands previously. We were always meeting other musicians in London – it was a very fertile time for music.

We do have some other songs recorded, other than those on SoundCloud. We will try to track them down.

++ Where were you from originally?

Neil: The first stirrings of Lobster Squad happened in Essex. We were the classic example of a “bedroom band” thorough most of the mid to late 1980s. We only started playing together live as a proper band after Nigel moved to London in ‘88.

Nigel: We moved around a lot when we were children, as our dad worked for BP and was constantly being given new postings. Neil lived in the West Indies and Libya, but that was before I was born. In the early years of my life we lived in Oxfordshire, Grangemouth, Swansea, Hertfordshire and then Oxfordshire again. When I was eight we moved to Chelmsford in Essex, which is where the family settled for the next ten years or so. It was a typical suburban commuter town, about thirty miles from London. I worked for three years on the local newspaper – the Essex Chronicle – before moving up to London to work on a business magazine. Neil was already living there. It was then that we decided to finally start a band.

++ How was London at the time of Lobster Squad? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

Neil: London was an extraordinary place to be trying to forge a musical career or indeed any other career in the arts at that time. Every second pub in London seemed to be a venue for upcoming bands, probably a legacy from the flourishing Pub Rock scene of the 70s, in addition to pubs there were multiple dedicated music venues of every size and catering to every genre. I recall seeing what I believe was Sonic Youth’s first UK gig at Thames Polytechnic, which was one of many colleges in London to host multiple gigs every week, and at one point I was probably going to 5 gigs a week. These venues are well documented elsewhere and too numerous to mention here, but I would have frequented to a greater or lesser extent well over 100 different London venues over those years.

Rather sadly though most of them no longer exist and going back over the few venues Lobster Squad actually played it appears that none of those exist anymore.

Record shops though, having gone through a similar decline to the point where there were only a handful of very specialist ones left in London are now going through something of a renaissance thanks largely to the revival of vinyl amongst the younger generations. There is still a thriving music scene in London and of course things change but I am not sure that the grass roots scene is quite as vibrant as it once was.

Nigel: It was an exciting time to be in London. There was a really strong music scene with lots of thriving mid-sized venues, such as the Powerhaus in Islington, The Mean Fiddler in Harlesden, the Town and Country Club in Kentish Town, to name just a few. This was in addition to the big venues like the Hammersmith Odeon and Wembley Arena, and (at the other end of the spectrum), local pubs which would regularly stage gigs. I went to gigs pretty regularly and saw lots of great indie bands, (The Smiths, REM, James, The La’s, The House of Love), plus music from many other genres – including Lou Reed and Van Morrison. There was a growing interest in world music at the time and lots of big names would play at venues like The Africa Centre. I always loved the melodic, joyful guitar playing of musicians like Diblo Dibala, and tried to incorporate at least some of that sound into what we were doing.

Rough Trade and Reckless Records were among the best record stores in London at the time, and there was a great world music record store called Stern’s which I often visited. Living in North London, I also went to Camden Market for second-hand records and bootlegs.

++ Were there any other good bands in your area?

Neil: My local underpass was latterly renamed Joe Strummer Subway as it was his busking pitch prior to The Clash. More local than this still, my flatmate and old art school buddy Paul was playing with a band called Bastard Kestrel who at the time were getting a fair bit of attention, (he later joined Lobster squad as our first drummer). Our next door neighbour was Rob McKahey the drummer from “Stump” who were by our standards incredibly successful having produced multiple singles, made TV appearances, videos, an album and toured with the likes of Husker Du. You couldn’t move in our small patch off the Edgware Road at that time without bumping into someone from an upcoming band or forging a career as an artist or a writer of some kind. It was a wonderful place to live before it gentrified and had its life blood sucked out of it.

Nigel: There were lots of very good bands in London, most famously around Camden. I knew plenty of people in bands, but none that were especially famous. One of our drummers, Mike Johnson, once played in a band that supported The Clash, and he even slept on Topper Headon’s couch. As for Lobster Squad, we used to practice at a rehearsal studio in Holloway, and Suede were sometimes practising next door. We listened to them through the wall but we didn’t ever meet them.

++ How was the band put together? How was the recruiting process? You were brothers? related?

Neil: Myself and my brother Nigel probably had 40 songs between us by the time we got around to actually recruiting anyone else. It was really a case of who do we know that can play this or that and shall we ask them to join. In 1989 my friend Paul became our first member, he was actually a guitarist but we needed a drummer and he quite liked the idea of being a drummer for a while. It actually worked out well and though he wasn’t particularly fancy he did keep very good time and he was reliable. That is pretty much how it was, people in the band or friends would recommend someone they knew when someone would leave.

++ Was there any lineup changes?

Neil: Oh god yes! Probably way too many. There was a pretty rapid turn around and people would leave out of frustration mainly. I can’t honestly blame them as progress was undeniably slow and the administration was utterly chaotic. In the 7 years we were actively playing as a band (by coincidence the same amount of time that the Beatles were together) we went through 13 different members.

Nigel: Lots, to the extent that each demo was effectively recorded by a different band. It was a pretty fluid line up. The only thing that remained unchanged was Neil and myself.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

Neil: The bulk of the songs on SoundCloud were Nigel’s but I would contribute songs as occasionally did Paul. These would sometimes arrive at the rehearsals fully worked up or sometimes just as ideas with individual parts and arrangements worked out during rehearsals. We had weekly rehearsals initially in Airwave studio Kilburn (not to be confused with Air Studios in Hampstead). It was a damp basement but conveniently located under an off licence. Later we moved to the marginally better rehearsal space at Westbourne studios, and finally ended up in a rehearsal studio in Holloway. This we knew must be good because even though it was still damp with a powerful smell of urine, beer soaked carpet and spliff about it, the now very famous indie band Suede were regularly rehearsing in the slightly better appointed room next door to us.

Nigel:I would write songs on my own at home and Neil did the same. We then took the band through the songs at rehearsals. Sometimes we would suggest particular lines for each instrument, and at other times we would work on the arrangements together as a group.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

Neil: It comes from (the pre cancelled) Woody Allen masterpiece, Annie Hall.

Nigel: We went through several names (Cusp, Maroon) but Lobster Squad was always the best received.

++ The first thing that caught my attention is that you didn’t get to release any records. How come?

Neil:Sadly nobody asked us to. It might have helped if we had had better contacts, or if one of us had even a vague idea of how to go about getting label interest. Looking back now it would probably have been a good idea to have found a manager as there were very few paths into the business proper at that time. None of us were natural born networkers and I for one was far more interested in producing strange backwards noises on my ancient recording devices than trying to brown nose my way into a record company.

Nigel:It was a really good era for indie music. There were many bands around, some of them excellent, and it was always a challenge to get noticed among the crowd. With hindsight we should have found a manager, as none of us were very good at plugging the band. We tended to focus entirely on the music without really thinking about how to get ourselves noticed.

++ Was there interest from labels at any point?

Neil:Absolutely none! Probably by the early 90s the indie labels which had served bands very well since the Punk era were now growing into more corporate concerns themselves or being bought up by the giants. This was pre internet of course, demos were very expensive to make and there was no guarantee anyone would listen to them. Now at least you can throw something out there yourself and hope it gets some attention.

Nigel:We sent one or two of our demos to record companies. One of them gave us some reasonably good feedback, but they didn’t think it was strong enough to sign us.

++ You did release demo tapes. From what I understand the first recordings date from 1988. Recorded at Canvey Island. Is that correct? Where thee two songs “Out of My Life” and “Pimlico” the first ones you recorded?

Neil:They were the first songs we recorded on 4 track. We had at that time about one and a half C90’s filled with recordings I had made in the bedroom with Nigel. These were very rudimentary and were bounced down multiple times between 2 or more slightly naff tape recorders but I became quite adept at recording from one tape to another without too much loss of quality. However they existed essentially as sketches to potentially be worked up later and as neither of us could really read music it was the best way of remembering them. The Canvey Island tape was a step up from that…slightly.

Nigel:It was the first time we had recorded properly on a four track machine. Before that we had recorded songs on twin cassette recorders, which allowed us to do some overdubbing. These cassettes sounded pretty muddy, though, so it was nice to get a clearer recording.

++ And what do you remember from recording at the small town of Canvey Island? Why did you end up recording there?

Neil:We were of course aware of Canvey Island’s illustrious musical pedigree with its Doctor Feelgood R&B and Pub Rock connections, but in truth the reason that we recorded there was because Nigel knew someone there who owned a 4 track recorder and a drum machine and who was willing to spend a day recording with us for no payment whatsoever. My main recollection was that it was an insanely hot day and that we were locked up in the first of what would be many small hot and stuffy rooms to come, but with enormous levels of excitement and enthusiasm at the idea of making a “Proper” recording.

Nigel:I remember it was a very hot summer’s day. We were recording in the living room of a friend, who owned the four track machine and produced the recording. He had a pet rat living inside his sofa which would pop up occasionally during the recording.

++ In 1989 you would record a 5 song demo tape at Kilburn Airwave. How was that experience? Were you more confident than the previous recordings? Did you use a producer?

Neil: We were at least a proper band who had been rehearsing together for a few months by the time we made this recording. The studio was effectively the rehearsal space which we had been using and on the day of the recording an engineer appeared, unlocked a door hitherto unnoticed and ushered us into a small space containing the mixing desk and a tape machine. The recordings were pretty much done live which worked very well as at least we knew the room. We recorded and mixed 5 songs in about 6 hours, a record that would stand until the band’s demise.

This particular demo got us our first gig at the much missed Haven Stables in Ealing (now an estate agents) ugh! They asked if we could do a 45 minute set for them the following week, to which I lied “yes that’s absolutely no problem at all” knowing that we only had 20 minutes of material rehearsed. There followed a frantic few days of working up new material and expanding some old stuff.

Nigel: We were definitely more confident at this point. It was probably the most smooth-running demo we ever made. We seemed to get everything right in one or two takes. With the other demos, it took us much longer to record something we were happy with.

++ One thing I noticed is that you have a song called “Lobster Theme”. What inspired you to create a theme song for the band?

++ You continue recording demos, in 1991 at Westbourne Rehearsal Studios. I start to wonder then what was your favourite recording studio and why?

Neil:Westbourne was a good rehearsal studio and it had a very good recording facility. I think it even had a Soundcraft Desk which you wouldn’t necessarily guess from the recording. Cost wise it was probably a good deal, as we were rehearsing there every week and got to know the people who ran it, but mostly it was nearby and handy for all of us.

Nigel:Westbourne was a great place to record because we rehearsed there every week, and we knew the sound that we wanted for the recording.

++ Then are demos recorded in Camden and Croydon in the following years. You seem to have been all over the place recording. Was it because of the price? Or what made you explore so many studios?

++ A song that was recorded in many versions was “Pimlico”. Was this area of London important for you in any way?

Neil:I think I was very briefly dating someone from Pimlico at the time which might be why it appears, but equally it might just be name checked because it rhymes with the word “Know”. Lyrics were never my strong point.

++ Are all of the songs on Soundcloud your recorded output? Are there more songs by the band?

Neil: There are many more but they are not in a well enough recorded or finished state to be aired, not that I am entirely sure that the songs on Soundcloud are quite polished enough either.

Nigel: We have one other studio recording, from about 1996, which features the final line-up of the band playing two new songs. I also recorded two or three other songs with our singer – Kathy – on a four-track I had bought. There are also some live recordings which hopefully one of us still has somewhere.

++ You had enough songs for an album perhaps. Wonder if you ever consider putting together some sort of retrospective album?

Neil:Yes that would be interesting. We still have all the masters from the demos we made and I would love to re mix them properly now that I understand that process better and perhaps even retrospectively apply some pro tools to them to get back to what we might have sounded like at our best.

Nigel:In total we had about forty songs (including some cover versions) which were of varying quality. Looking back, I wish we had recorded a greater variety of songs on the demos, rather than focus on different arrangements of the same five or six songs.

It would be great to put together a retrospective album, ideally using the original demo recordings. We have master tapes, so they could be remixed. Although the recordings aren’t of the greatest quality, they do capture a moment in time, and have an authentic late 80s to mid-90s sound, which I think would be difficult to replicate with current technology. These were in the days long before auto-correct, so there are a few mistakes here and there, (we are even slightly out of tune now and then), but hopefully this just adds to their character.

++ And there were no compilation appearances, right?

++ My favourite song of yours is “Up to You”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

Neil: Best that Nigel answers this question as it is one of his songs.

Nigel: It is a song about someone famous and their struggles with loneliness and depression. It’s not about any one person. When I wrote it I was thinking about various tortured film and rock stars (James Dean, Montgomery Clift, Janis Joplin). I have always liked songs which have an upbeat and cheerful melody juxtaposed with rather dark lyrics, and that was something I was trying to achieve with this song. It is one of the first songs I wrote, when I was about nineteen or twenty.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Lobster Squad song, which one would that be and why?

Neil: Probably Summer Will Soon Be Fading. It stayed in our set for the whole time we were together, it is a fairly minimal arrangement and it had an easy but very memorable bass riff which drove the song. Dancing around the same handful of notes was a catchy vocal melody and the chords shifted around the whole thing bringing it different colours. I could probably still play it now 30 years later without even thinking. it was beautifully simple but quiet beguiling. Lobster Squad, as do so many other bands, started to over complicate songs as we gradually became relatively better musicians and managed to somehow lose the joy and freedom of those early songs. I still think the early songs were among our best and “Summer” was a very early one.

Nigel: Summer Will Soon Be Fading is one of my favourites. It always seemed to be well received at gigs.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

Neil: Not a great many, we would play a couple of gigs as a particular line up then someone would leave and we would then need to get a new member up to speed before going through the whole getting a gig process again. We never really got to the point where we were gigging so regularly that we could actually rehearse less.

Nigel: Not a huge number, but we played at a variety of venues, such as the Powerhaus in Islington, the Bass Clef in Hoxton, the Rock Garden in Covent Garden, Haven Stables in Ealing and the White Horse pub in Putney. Sadly, most of these venues have long since closed down.

++ And what were the best gigs in general that you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

Neil: Some of our early gigs stick with me as particular highlights. My favourite was at the much missed Rock Garden (now an Apple store) ugh! I remember having just come off stage when a guy approached me and said I think I recognise you! Pointing in the direction of the stage I proudly said yes I was in the band that just played, he replied were you? oh I didn’t notice, but I think I saw you yesterday at the Hayward Gallery which was true as I had been there, and that was the nearest brush I ever had with fame. We made £20 that night and that was the only money Lobster Squad ever made so all in all it was a very successful night for us.

Nigel: The Rock Garden was our second gig, there was a decent-sized crowd and our music went down pretty well. The last gig we played was for twenty or so friends at a rehearsal studio in Holloway. It was a really nice occasion, and we didn’t realise at the time that it would be our last performance.

++ And were there any bad ones?

Neil: Yes a terrible one at the much missed Powerhaus (now a building society) ugh! One of the band (who will remain nameless) was very, very late for the soundcheck meaning we only had about a minute to get levels worked out. We were pretty miserable at this and decided to go back to our singer’s flat for some refreshments. She lived only about a 15 min walk away. Rather stupidly we took our guitars with us on a bitter snowy February evening. We got back to the venue and went straight on stage and spent the next 30 minutes battling with our expanding metal strings as our instruments came to terms with the 40 degrees difference between a wintery Islington evening and an extremely hot stage. The resulting experiment in alternative random tuning in front of a live audience did not go down well.

Nigel: The Powerhaus gig had the biggest crowd we ever played to. There were several hundred people there, although most had come to see one of the other bands., Unfortunately the guitars slipped out of tune without us noticing. We couldn’t hear clearly what we were all playing (we didn’t get a proper soundcheck) so we didn’t sound at our best that night. It’s a shame because it was a great venue.

++ When and why did Lobster Squad stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

Neil: I think in truth it just run out of energy sometime in 97. Nobody actually said it’s over but at some point a rehearsal was not booked for the following week and nobody seemed to object or even notice.

Nigel: We stopped making music altogether in1997. Neil and I had been working on the band for about seven or eight years and were both now in our thirties, and we felt that it was time to move on to other things. It is quite challenging, keeping a band together through various line-up changes, and we had probably had enough by then.

++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?

Neil: Yes once. We had a very good drummer who was a dear friend of mine and for a about a year he played with us. He eventually left the band and moved to Lodz in Poland as an English teacher. He was very quickly absorbed into the music scene there and given a radio programme of his own on radio Lodz playing mostly Reggae, which at the time was huge in Poland.  On one of many trips I made to Poland he interviewed me as a fellow ex band member and played one of our songs which had a definite reggae vibe in its final incarnation. That was the only Radio airing to my knowledge that we ever got.

Nigel: The band predated the internet by some years, so it was almost impossible to get music heard by the wider public without the support of a record company or radio stations. YouTube and SoundCloud etc have completely changed the landscape and greatly increased the possibility of directly reaching an audience.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

Neil: No but I did get a photograph I took of a friend’s band published in the NME once.

++ What about fanzines?

Neil: No our genius seemed to have bypassed all of them too. I did actually consider starting one once just so we could be in it, but that is probably how most fanzines begin.

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

Neil: There were many highs throughout the years particularly in the early days when rehearsals and gigs sometimes felt more like a primal scream session than work and the sheer joy of playing together when it was all going well meant that the tensions of the week would melt away. I don’t think there were any of us who wouldn’t have given up their day jobs if we had got the call from the A&R person but it wasn’t to be. But then there you are, a tiny footprint that hitherto barely existed in the history of rock and roll, so thank you Roque for giving us back a small voice.

Nigel: The best part of being in a band was rehearsing and working up songs every week. We had a lot of fun and laughs together, and there is something very liberating about being in that sort of creative environment. In terms of one particular highlight, I did enjoy the Rock Garden gig. I also loved making the demos, (I can’t really choose a favourite, they all have their strengths and weaknesses). It was great to have something tangible at the end of the day after all the hard work.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

Neil: Drawing and I did manage to turn that hobby into a 40 year long career as an illustrator.

Nigel: I like reading, mostly fiction, and creative writing. I had a novel published in 2015, called The Restoration of Otto Laird. I also enjoy watching sport (football, cricket) and visiting museums and galleries. I’m very interested in archaeology, but I haven’t been on an excavation for some years.

++ I’ve been to London a couple of times and really enjoyed it. But still I’d love to ask a local. What do you  suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

Neil: I very much have a love hate relationship with London these days, I have always lived in Paddington / Marylebone, and I currently live only about 10 mins walk from my original flat near the Joe Strummer underpass (now closed due to structural issues). Marylebone is not what it used to be and any vibrant, bohemian creative spirit it once had has long gone, driven out by abject wealth. Soho, Ladbroke Grove and Camden have fared a little better but you sometimes feel that they are still living off past glories. Having said that it is still an exciting city if you are young and my son who was born and bred in central London loves it. In the last few days alone he has seen Deerhoof play live at Kings Cross and has been to see Ligeti’s Requiem at the proms, it is still that kind of City for music.

My advice to anyone visiting is not to plan but to be a Flaneur, (the art of wandering aimlessly). London is a great city to practice this art as it will still throw up surprises and joys which are hidden in the detail of the journey rather than the obvious destinations.

Lastly support the London pubs, most of which have extraordinary histories, before they are all converted into much needed luxury housing.

Nigel: There are loads of great museums in London, but one hidden gem is Sir John Soane’s Museum in Holborn. It is full of old artefacts and antiquities (sculptures, paintings etc). It’s also a short walk from the British Museum. One of the best things about living in London is the wide array of food from all over the world. It’s worth sampling as many as possible. Also, it’s a cliché but try a real ale in a pub. Beers from East Anglia are especially good.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Neil: To Quote Black Francis from Pixies, “I’ve walked the sand with the Crustaceans”. Thank you to the ladies and gentlemen of Lobster Squad, it was a pleasure playing with you.

Nigel: I agree – happy days.

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Listen
Lobster Squad – Up to You

Thanks so much to Paul ‘Baz’ Higgins for the interview! I wrote about the Leeds band Collapsible Deckchairs some time ago hoping to learn more details about them. I own the “William Shakespeare” 7″ and I think it is fantastic. So yeah, only natural to want to know more as there is barely any good info on the web about them. A few days ago Baz got in touch and was keen on doing this interview. I was thrilled. So yeah, I asked a ton of questions, and here are his answers!

++ Hi Baz! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

I’m not in a band any more. The last band I played in was “Bugwriter” back in the late 1990s. This was another band based in Leeds and played at similar venues to the Deckchairs. The biggest gig I did with Bugwriter was playing the “Breeze” festival in 1998 – this was at Temple Newsam which is a stately home on the outskirts of Leeds. We were second on the bill after Runston Parva (who later renamed as the Kaiser Chiefs and have had several hits in the UK – not sure if they are known in the US). Fellow Bugwriter band members were James Thorn (Guitar/vocals), Jon Gaskell (Keyboards/vocals) and Gary Green (Drums). Sadly, Bugwriter didn’t release any records. The musical baton has been passed to my son who is a music producer.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

++ Had you been in other bands before Collapsible Deckchairs? What about the other band members? Are there any songs recorded?

Collapsible Deckchairs was my first band. Paddy Morrison and I started playing guitars together when we were about 15 or 16. We recruited Simon Masters (who we simply called “Masters”) on drums about a year later – he was 3 years younger than us. We did our first gigs when I was 17. In hindsight I’m surprised that pubs let us play, as Masters was only about 14…we only played gigs for about a year (1981 to 1982). We were probably most inspired by the Undertones – uptempo short songs, and not at all serious. In October 1982 I left Leeds for Sheffield University. However in 1984 me and Paddy decided to get back together to record the single (both songs on the single were regulars in our gigging days)

++ Where were you from originally?

Leeds

++ How was Leeds at the time of Collapsible Deckchairs? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

There were a few bands at my high school. My brother Matt played drums in The Mess, together with Phil Mayne and Choque Hussein. Choque worked in Jumbo records which was the best independent record shop in Leeds at the time. Later, Choque formed “Black Star Liner”. My friend Luke Blumler played in The Gimmicks, and then went on to play in Mama Scuba. In the early 90s I briefly played in a band with him called “Kirk Out” He was a great drummer, and passed his musical abilities to his son Harvey, who is now in a EDM duo called Prospa. You can find them on Youtube/Spotify.

++ Were there any other good bands in your area?

One of the bands that played at some of the same venues as us in the early 80s was “Verba Verba”. We were a bit in awe of them as they were brilliant musicians and had fantastic songs. I’m surprised they never made it big.

++ How was the band put together? How was the recruiting process?

Me and Paddy were best mates at school from the age of about 9. We just started playing guitars together when we about 14 or 15. In 1980 we were looking for a drummer and we saw Masters playing in a band at a high school gig. The band were awful but he was great, so the next day at school I found him in the playground and asked him to join us, which he did.

++ Was there any lineup changes?

No

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name? 

I genuinely can’t remember how we alighted on the name. I think we were just looking for something quirky.

++ From what I understand the label that released the only 7″ by Collapsible Deckchairs, the Mordent label, was yours. Wondering then what came first, the band or the label? And how was running the label? What was the best part of it and what was the worst?

When me and Paddy decided to release “William Shakespeare” we just thought up a label name. The “label” was really just us two. We arranged to get the record pressed and designed the sleeve. We only pressed 1,000 copies and it was mainly to sell to mates and at gigs. I expect about 500 remained unsold. I have no idea how it got a review in Spin magazine in 1985… Later, when I wanted to release “Bingo” and “Love is Blind” it made sense to use the same label name.

++ On this label you also released two more singles as far as I know, a solo record of yours, Baz Higgins, and another by the band A to Z + the Girl Guides. I have never heard these records. Sound-wise, were they close to the Collapsible Deckchairs or how would you describe them?

++ And there were no other releases on Mordent, is that right?

Correct!

++ Back to Collapsible Deckchairs, were the recordings on the 7″ the first the band had made? Or had you already been releasing demo tapes like many bands at the time?

We did a couple of demo tapes in 1981/2 at a small studio in Bradford – sadly I don’t think they exist anymore – we did a total of seven songs, all gleaned from our gig songlist. Song titles were: “Miriam”, “Fat”, “Dog Dead”, “Do the Deck”, “John’s Radio”, “Bali Hai” and “Tony Kell”

We also recorded three songs at a friend’s house (Mick Hayes) in 1982. Mick had a 4-track tape recorder. The songs we did there were all a capella, with the only accompaniment being a Casio VL-Tone (this was a pocket-synth from the era that doubled as a calculator – very strange). The songs we did were called “Smoking” “How to be successful in your job” and “I Met Her in a Pub”. We performed these 3 songs at gigs as a bit of a novelty.

++ The B side of the 7″ is “Ford Cortina”. I do wonder why dedicate a song to a car. Perhaps any of you owned this particular model?

Paddy wrote the lyrics to this one, so you’d have to ask him! The song isn’t really about a Ford Cortina, it’s just random thoughts…(“ Money comes and money goes, counting out your pennies on your fingers and toes, I walk round all day in the deepest slumber, and people have lived in houses for as long as I can remember”…) Paddy was always very creative with words and came up with some great lines. I think one night him and Masters were walking home from a pub and Masters was banging on about high-performance sports cars which Paddy found incredibly boring – hence the line… “When we we walk home under the stars, all you can talk about is custom cars, But that only makes me feel meaner – how’s about a brand new Ford Cortina”

++ Are there still unreleased songs by Collapsible Deckchairs?

Only the rough demo recordings mentioned above.

++ My favourite song of yours is “William Shakespeare”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

I think it was a result of doing English “O levels” when I was 15/16 and we had to study Shakespeare and I was bored stiff.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Collapsible Deckchairs’s song, which one would that be and why?

We had a song called “Dog Dead”. Paddy wrote the lyrics and they were surreal. As I recall the first verse was “Got to get – Shot the pet – Undertaker came and saw. Goggle eyed, dropped his jaw, said he could do no job. Red he blushed – big slob, three-piece pinstripe, collar snow. Big black car, shiny wheels. Sorry business, got to go”. That was probably my favourite. However, the most popular song at our gigs was “Miriam”

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

We probably only did gigs for about 12 months from June 1981 to July 1982. Not sure how many in total, but maybe 20.

++ And what were the best gigs in general that you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

The Pack Horse in Leeds was a favourite because it was very small and intimate. In terms of anecdotes – Masters’ powers of recuperation were legendary – we were supporting the Red Guitars in Hull in 1982 and 5 minutes before we were due on stage he was unconscious under a table having downed a few pints of cider (he was only 15 at the time). Somehow, he raised himself and played faultlessly for 40 minutes before crawling back under the table.

Red Guitars were an indie band who had a few minor hits in the UK – my brother Matt played drums for them. They recently did a reunion tour in the UK, and they re-released their song “Good Technology” – you can find it on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c7vhY2-PFE

++ And were there any bad ones?

Probably, but I don’t remember (or choose not to!).

++ When and why did Collapsible Deckchairs stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

After Collapsible Deckchairs I played with A to Z (see above). At Sheffield Uni I formed “Sax Maniacs” who did a few gigs at Uni venues. I also played bass in “Gatecrashers” which was a big band (Glenn Miller-style). Later on I played in Bugwriter (see above).

++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?

No!

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention? I did notice that Spin in the U.S. reviewed your single, do you know how that came to be?

No idea how Spin got hold of it. We didn’t do any marketing at all We weren’t business-minded – we just wanted to make music.

++ What about fanzines?

Possibly but I don’t recall

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

Playing live was always the biggest enjoyment.

++ Never been to Leeds so I want to ask a local. What do you  suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

Leeds is a fairly big town in Yorkshire, Northern England. Its not very historic, so not many great sights although Royal Armouries museum is worth visiting and the Town Hall and the Corn Exchange are good examples of Victorian architecture. There is great countryside nearby in the Yorkshire Dales. There is a fairly large Indian/Pakistani population so you can get very good curries. In pubs there are the usual traditional English beers.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Thanks for getting in touch – all these events are from 40 years ago so my memory is sketchy. I’m a bit amazed that anyone still listens to the single, but delighted that they do. I have lost touch with Paddy Morrison and Masters over the years, but I will try and contact them to see if they have any other memories.

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Listen
Collapsible Deckchairs – William Shakespeare

I wrote about the great Australian band The -Ists who released just one record back in the 80s a long time ago. Happily I got in touch with Jack Robins and he answered a bunch of my questions. There might be some day a 2nd part for this interview as not all questions were answered, but I wanted to share this and make them public as it is proper indiepop history!

++ Hi Jack! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

Yes, I’m still involved with music. I do acoustic stuff in the alt-country/country folk area as a solo artist under the name Jack Robins (Jack is a nickname I’ve had since I was about 13) and also have an indie rock/pop band called The Idea of Light. With the former, I have an album out called Notes by Jack Robins and the Pretty Problems, available on all major streaming services and with the latter I’ve recorded four tracks but am preparing some more.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

My first music memories were from the radio in the early to mid 1960s (I am quite old!). My first instrument was guitar and I’ve stuck to it, hoping to improve. I wanted to sing, play guitar and write songs from fairly early on and that’s what I’ve been doing since, interspersed with dull things like making a living. I was a fan of the Beatles, Stones, Bee Gees, Who, Small Faces and some folk and blues from the likes of Buffy St Marie from the early days. After that, it was Hendrix, Cream, Traffic etc, but then punk came along and blew it all apart. I loved the Clash, the Jam, the Pistols but mostly Elvis Costello, of whom I remain an enormous fan.

++ Had you been in other bands before The -Ists? I read you were in The Units, right? Tell me a bit about your other bands, any releases?

Before the -ists, I had been in The Jaggels but my first serious band was The Units (not the ones from the US of course), who had one single, Baby, You Flirt b/w Grill Room. The -ists was put together in 1987 on a 10 month visit back to Adelaide from London, where I had moved in 1983 to try to further my musical career there (with a notable lack of success). I got drummer Craig ‘Max’ Rodda into the the -ists from the Screaming Believers and also Rees Hughes, the Believers’ first bass player and an ex-bandmate from The Jaggels. We played for some months as a three-piece and recorded ’Rose’ during that time. Some tracks were subsequently played on John Peel’s iconic BBC Radio One show the next year, after I got back to London.

++ What about the other band members? Are there any songs recorded?

You can hear Craig on loads of records from Adelaide, including of course all the Believers’ stuff and also the first Exploding White Mice album, Brute Force and Ignorance. Craig plays for my current band The Idea of Light.

++ Where were you from originally?

I’m originally from Adelaide – born and raised here – while Rees was original from Blackpool in the UK, where his dad was a professional sax player and had a variety show on Tyne Tees Television at one stage before emigrating, and Craig grew up in Broken Hill, NSW.

++ How was Adelaide at the time of The -Ists? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

When the -ists were playing around Adelaide, the main bands I can remember were the Screaming Believers, the Spikes, the Dagoes and the Mad Turks from Istanbul; there were obviously loads of others but I can’t bring them to mind at the minute.

++ How was the band put together? How was the recruiting process?

The band was put together simply through knowing the guys and saying ‘hey, do you want to help me play my songs?’ There were no lineup changes; we didn’t last long enough for that!

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name? It’s a very curious name to say the least…

The name came from a friend of mine’s observation that there were so many ‘isms’ about, which meant of course that there were loads of ‘ists’ about to practice those ‘isms’. It was to leave the first bit open for people to fill for themselves. Being so esoteric, it naturally led to a pile of misunderstandings.

++ You released in 1987 the “Rose” mini-album. It came out on Greasy Pop Records. I don’t know much about the label, I know it was local, but I was wondering if you could tell me a little more about them?

Greasy Pop was set up by Doug Thomas, who was in the Dagoes. I don’t know what the process was but he had released records by other groups and some compilations under the name of ‘An Oasis in a Sea of Noise). Doug sent me some records when I went back to London and I passed them on to John Peel, who played some tracks from some of them that I know of.

++ And so, how did you end up working with them. How did you catch their attention? Was it through a demo tape?

As far as catching their attention, Adelaide was (and is) such a small scene that we had to come across each other at some stage and he offered to release the LP if we covered the recording costs, which we did.

++ There are etchings on the runout grooves of the record saying “The Ists Light Shines” on the A side and “Inwards Every Time” on the B side. What’s the story behind these phrases?

The runout etchings I have no idea about. I guess someone did them in the pressing process. I had no idea they were there.

++ Also do tell about the artwork, the flower which is not a rose on the cover. Who made it?

The artwork was initially to be done by my nephew. He did a wonderful, realistic drawing of a rose, which wasn’t what I wanted at all, so with my left hand, I drew a really crappy one and did the lettering as well. I wanted that childish, naive, approximate look.

++ Why were there no more releases by the band? Was there any interest from labels?

I took the record to some record companies when I got back to London and apart from one A&R guy at Polydor, didn’t really get much interest. I sent one to Tony Visconti and went to see what he thought and pick it up if he didn’t like it but the prick had binned it. Arrogant arsehole.

++ Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

I’ve also been doing some acting, most recently as Prospero in a production of the Tempest, went to university and got myself a PhD, and written a children’s book.

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Listen
The -Ists – There is a Light That Shines

Thanks so much to Dez Foley for the interview! I wrote about the great Dublin band Wilder a while ago on the blog. The band had released two 7″ singles and recorded a Fanning Session during their time. For some reason there’s very little info about them on the blog, so when Dez got in touch I asked if he was to share the story of the band, and happily said yes! Learn a little bit more about this great sounding Irish band!

++ Hi Dez! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

Hi Roque! I haven’t done much in the last few years, but I am currently working on some new songs for an Acton Bell release, an EP, which will be available on Bandcamp.com as soon as it’s ready.

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

First music memories are the records that were played at home. My older brothers and sisters were all record buyers, so we had a good selection of LP’s; things like Beatles, Abba, Bowie, Leonard Cohen, James Taylor.

I asked my parents for a drum kit when I was about 11 but this was a no-go, so they bought me a guitar instead. Initially, I had some lessons, but found it was better to work at learning to play on my own. I’m still not very good!

++ Had you been in other bands before Wilder?

I was in one band before Wilder, that was called The Big Weekend, around 1986/87. We played some gigs around Dublin. I don’t think we ever recorded or made any demo tapes, but my memory is very hazy, it’s a long time ago.

++ What about the other band members? Are there any recordings?

Not that I know of.

++ Where were you from originally?

I’m from Dublin.

++ How was Dublin at the time of Wilder? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

There was a lot happening in Dublin in the late 80’s/early 90’s. We gigged regularly and there were lots of venues around the city.

There was a band called Scale The Heights that we liked and played with a few times; but there were so many around.

Yes there were lots of good record shops, some of which are still around, but under different names; but most have gone now.

++ How was the band put together? How was the recruiting process?

Wilder were already a band before I joined and they had had a singer before me.

I was introduced to the band members by my then girlfriend; I went along to audition and carried on from there.

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

++ Your first release I think was “Babel Road” 7″ on Oedipus Records in 1990. I have never heard of this label before. Can you tell me a bit about them? Or perhaps it was yourselves self-releasing?

Oedipus was our own label just for the Babel Road single. Prior to that we had recorded demo tapes, but I think we felt we might get more attention if we had a physical record.

++ On this record you worked with Pat Dunne at Sun Studios. How was that experience?

Yes we had done our first demo with Pat at Sun in 1989 and he was a great engineer; a really nice guy who we got on well with.

Babel Road was produced by Paul Byrne and Martin Clancy who had had some success in the Irish band, In Tua Nua. It was a great experience working with them.

I played again with Paul in more recent years in The Drays; a band fronted by singer/songwriter Stephen Ryan (Stars of Heaven, The Revenants).

++ This 7″ has a cool sleeve made by Siobhan Hyde. Did you art direct or how did that sleeve come about? How did you know Siobhan?

The sleeve was all Siobhan’s design; I’m not aware of the band having any input with that, but I may be wrong.

Siobhan was studying Art at the time and was the girlfriend of Richie, our guitarist.

She also designed T-Shirts for us and she designed our demo tape covers which we would sell at gigs.

++ Prior to releasing this 7″, had you made demo tapes? Or was the 7″ the first time you were recording at a studio?

No we had done some recording before the 7”.
Our first demo was done in 1989.

++ Speaking of demo tapes, do you remember how many you made and what songs were on them? I know there was a 1988 one with the song “Get Happy”.

We did quite a few over the years and I don’t remember them all. I probably only have copies of one, possibly two, myself.

The first demo we did with Pat Donne had a good song called Harvest House, which featured Cello. I always regretted that we didn’t re-record that song or make more use of it, but that’s the way things go.

++ You released one 7″ on the Danceline label with the songs “Can You Shake” and “Dark Heaven” in 1991. Was wondering how you end up working with them? How was the relationship with the label?

I can’t remember how that came about, but Danceline was a big enough label in Ireland at that time; they had a good profile.

They were very nice people and very easy to work with and they liked the band.

I’m sure we must have approached them, but I can’t remember the details any longer.

++ Aside from these two releases you appeared on the compilation “Fresh Evidence – New Exhibits from Ireland”. Is this your full discography or am I missing anything?

++ Was there any interest from other labels at the time? Maybe a big label?

We never had any label interest. We did a showcase for Mother Records (label funded by U2) once, but nothing came of that.

We were approached by Gerry Cott (ex Boomtown Rats) who was interested in managing us. He came to see us play in Dublin and we travelled to meet him in the UK.

He did offer us a contact but as it would have involved us moving to the UK, we decided not to accept.

Who knows what would have happened if we’d gone to the UK???

++ My favourite song of yours is “Babel Road”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

It was a new song at the time; lyrically it’s just a kind of “stream of consciousness” song, in that it’s not really about anything.

Paul Byrne and Martin Clancy were a big help in working on the arrangement of that song, so that we had well defined parts and hooks and a big chorus.

Paul also added great backing vocals.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Wilder song, which one would that be and why?

I think my favourite would be Dark Heaven, from our second 7”, which I always thought was a very strong song.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

We played a lot of gigs! And we were lucky to get to play outside Dublin also. We played in Cork, Galway and Sligo and outside Ireland, we played in London and did a weekend of gigs in the Isle of Man.

++ And what were the best gigs in general that you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

The Isle of Man weekend was a favourite for me; we had a great time. We played over two nights in a really cool venue, which was run by an Irish couple. We had to play two sets a night, one early, one late, which we’d never done before, so it was a great experience.

Plus we got to hang out in Douglas for a couple of days; it was a really nice time.

++ And were there any bad ones?

I remember the Sligo gig wasn’t a good experience, but luckily there weren’t many bad ones.

++ When and why did Wilder stop making music?

The band stopped around 1992/93. I don’t recall a specific reason except that perhaps we were running out of steam and all were a bit fed up.

++ I read that the band ended up changing their name to Bliss and recorded a demo. Was Bliss essentially the same as Wilder or were there some differences?

That’s correct; I think the name change was just to try to inject some new enthusiasm into the band; it was the same line up. We recorded a demo as Bliss with John Scott in The Factory in Dublin, but no releases came out of it and we never played live as Bliss.

++ Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

Yes I went on to join The Sewing Room in 1994, then Crumb in 2003 and then formed Acton Bell in 2014. Around 2014/15 I joined The Drays for a time and recorded and played gigs with them as a back-up singer.

++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?

Wilder did quite a lot of TV at the time; we were lucky to get some live TV appearances on national shows. We made promo videos for Babel Road and Can You Shake which featured on some TV shows also.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

We did get some press, not a huge amount but some good reviews overall.

++ What about fanzines?

None that I’m aware of.

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

I don’t know if we had any specific highlights as such. We enjoyed being able to make records/videos and play a lot of gigs, which we always enjoyed.

We put a lot of time and effort into the band over the years.

++ Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have?

I’m also a big film fan and had a film blog for a while; focuspullr on WordPress, which is still accessible.

I’m also a big reader.

++ Had been in Dublin for a few days but I’d love to ask a local. What do you  suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

I guess I would suggest some usual touristy things in the city like the Guinness Tour, Trinity College and the Book of Kells; there are lots of excellent galleries to check out.

Also a trip to the harbour town of Howth is a must for any fans of seafood. It also has great walks with amazing views over Dublin Bay.

And local pubs like The Cobblestone, The Long Hall and Grogan’s are all worth checking out for great pints of Guinness and music!

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Nothing except to say thanks Roque; it’s been a bit of a memory jog looking back, but good fun also!!

Take care.

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Listen
Wilder – Babel Road

++ Hi Marcos! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

I got a bass when I was 15. Was a huge fan of the Jam, their music was what really motivated me to learn and want to play, I took some basic lessons with a guitar teacher for a few months about basic bass theory, 18 months later was playing in a covers band playing a lot of Jam songs playing in pubs from the age of 16-ish.

++ Had you been in other bands before Full Cry? What about the other band members Are there any recordings?

As mentioned earlier, I joined a Mod type band in 1987 when I was 16 called the Persuaders. We did a lot of covers with a few of our own songs. We weren’t great but you have to start somewhere, I got some valuable – sometimes tough, gigging experience from it, we certainly played in a few wrong places. The band ended a couple of years later when 2 of us came to blows after a gig.

++ Where were you from originally?

Jason, Pik , Marcos, Howard – we were all from born, raised and lived in East Hull. Andrew Doyle (2nd Guitarist 1991 / 92) originally from Reading and had been living in Hull for many years.

++ How was Hull at the time of Full Cry? Were there any bands that you liked? Were there any good record stores? Or what about the pubs or venues to go check out up and coming bands?

I think it was a very good local scene that really just seemed to blossom over the next several years, seeing more and more local venues putting bands on other than just the Adelphi. ‘Where ?’ magazine – purely based around the local music scene arrived around 1991, local band compilation tapes, battle of the bands competition were all yearly things. There were some good secondhand record stores – Offbeat, Normans place, East Coast Music, – which I worked at for 5 years – I wrote a lot of the music from ‘Howards End’ in the back of the shop on a guitar that was in there.

++ During those late 80s there were many great indiepop bands from the UK. Would you recommend some obscure bands I might have missed?

On the Hull Scene there were lots of really good bands, too many to mention – favourites of mine – Giantkind particularly whom we gigged with a lot, had great songs, Secret of Life – a very unique sounding band, I enjoyed a lot. Indigo Trashcan were one of Hulls biggest local bands, and were a great live band. Milkfloat (aka Death by Milkfloat) were a very good 3 piece band with their own sound, they were around a number of years and had a few records out, all worth having a look for.

++ How was the band put together? How was the recruiting process?

++ How was the creative process for you? Where did you usually practice?

We’d rehearse once a week, at one point it was about 3 times a fortnight – dependent on funds – we were mostly all unemployed. We’d all be working on song ideas at home during the week and bring any to rehearsal , Pik always had his notepad with him so would always be writing lyrics on the go. We would spend a lot of time jamming at the rehearsal, whenever Pik heard something he liked, he would reach for his notepad and start singing lyrics he had written. There’s always a magic in these moments when everyone’s creative input collides and creates something completely new.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

We had a guy – Adrian, who used to come hang around at rehearsals – take photos, help with equipment, stop and start the tape recorder etc. He was really quiet, but also a real character who lived his life by his own rules, very into watching and photographing local bands. Full Cry was his suggestion from a list of names, we all liked it and none of us had thought of anything better, it was a pretty strong name.

++ You didn’t put out any proper releases, just demo tapes. Why was that? Was there any interest from labels at any point?

++ And did you ever consider self-releasing?

No, anything beyond cassette release just wasn’t financially viable to 3 unemployed lads from Hull.

++ The first song I know from you is “Seashell Michelle”. This song appeared on a tape called “Tales from the Riverbank”. Do you remember anything about this compilation tape? How did you end up there?

I got to know the guy – Chris Warkup through the local music scene and playing some gigs with his then band at the time, he became quite a bit of a gig organiser on the local scene and used to put these local compilation tapes together every couple of years, we missed out being on the first one but I think were on each one after that.

++ Your songs ended also on a few more compilation tapes like “Nice 1” and “Now That’s What We Call Hull”. Were these tapes compiled by the same people? And what about the bands in all of these compilation tapes? Were you familiar, or friends, with them? Was there a tight-knit scene?

Yes, Chris Warkup was behind all these compilations, they seemed to get more popular with each release. They were a really good idea, it got bands familiar with each other’s music, got them talking to and supporting each other. We had people coming to see us because they liked our songs(s) from these tapes and we also sold quite a few of our own tapes on the back of appearing on these compilations, as I imagine many other local bands did. They were very healthy for the local scene and proceeds went to charity from them.

++ In 1992 you released a self-titled tape with 5 songs, “High with You”, “Melted”, “Seashell Michelle”, “None the Wiser” and “Brutal Children”. Was this your first demo tape? Do you remember how many copies you made? And were your demo tapes mainly for promotion purposes or you also used to sell them at gigs?

Yeah, I’m amazed you know the detail of this !. This was our first ‘release’ , I’m pretty sure that our first release ‘Full Cry’ was run off on a double tape deck on TDK C46 cassettes, as and when required, so not that many of these were really ever put out there. It was all quite a poppy, jangly guitar bunch of tunes, recorded in various studios – hence the varying sound across the songs. A couple of those songs had been previously recorded a couple of times before we got something we were happy with. As with all our Cassette releases there was always a couple of songs from each that never made it onto the finished tape, and were not released, as we weren’t 100% happy with either the song or the mix. This first release was us finding our feet, we were young and new to recording studios. This was our only release were we had 2 guitarists in the band (Andy Doyle & Howard Smith). All our tapes released after this were professionally duplicated, cut to size and with printed labels at a local studio. We moved on from playing these songs live fairly quickly, only ‘Brutal Children’ from that cassette survived in the set list over the years, it was such a great song to end a gig with and popular with the audiences. We were always being told by people how they loved ‘Seashell Michelle’ and ‘High with You’ – as they’d discovered us on the local compilation tapes, and they were often very  disappointed we didn’t play them anymore live after a while. ‘Seashell’ particularly always felt like a difficult song to play live for some reason. We recorded that one twice, the second one is an extended much more polished version than the one from the ‘Tales from the Riverbank’ tape. ‘High with you’ we recorded 3 times !, the first one was our first time in a studio so was extremely basic and never released, come to think of it, I don’t think the 2nd version was either

++ In 1993 you released another tape with 5 original songs, “My Angel Died a Radio Death”. Then in 1995 you had “Confidence with Asthma” and in 1995 “Howard’s End”. Have I mentioned all the tapes you put out or am I missing any?

‘My Angel Died a Radio Death’ – We were back to being a 1 guitarist band – Andy had left, maybe with the exception of Brutal Children and a couple of other songs where the 2nd guitar really gave it some extra edge, we just never totally got full potential of having the 2 guitars in the band. Howard was starting to use distortion and really starting to take on the lead guitar role more, we were starting to write rockier songs at this point whilst still remaining tuneful. Also starting to utilise studio ideas more.

‘Confidence with Asthma’ – was a real kitchen sink collection of songs. Definitely our most interesting, creative and slightly off the wall period. It was all over the place stylistically ie : – an Acoustic track with a Mandolin (Razorwire) , a 9 and half minute spaced out rock tune (Headhum) , a 2 minute comedy-esque Jazz type number (Jealous), to name some of the songs. A lot of songs were ‘winged’ in the studio from half formed ideas, the playing is sloppy at times – we never played to click track, but I think it has a charm for it, there;s a lot of humour in this batch of songs and certainly dare I say, a ‘Confidence’ to what we were doing now.

‘Howards End’ 1995 – Howard (Guitar) had come to the ‘End’ with Full Cry, he wasn’t feeling it anymore and left amicably, it seemed like such an obvious choice to call the tape !. Pik, Jason and myself continued rehearsing, I was playing guitar for the time being and we wrote some new songs pretty quickly and effortlessly. We recorded them with just the 3 of us. We had some help from Stu (Rich Rags / Sugarkill) on Guitar duties for ‘Plastic Girl’.

++ You have some fun song titles and I was wondering where that humour came from? Also speaking of songs, I take you were fans of Star Wars as you wrote “Born in Time for Star Wars”?

Ha, yes were a right set of star wars nerds, I will actually take credit for that title. I think it was something I said and Pik liked it. All other titles, and all lyrics were always Pik’s. There was a lot of humour in many his lyrics and song titles, they could be quite serious and heavy – Brutal Children , Doubt, with some real depth to them and then equally also humorous and sarcastic too – Plastic Girl, Hand, Jealous.

++ And also other than the 3 compilations I mentioned, are there any other compilations you were featured on?

Yeah, we appeared on possibly the first CD based Hull band compilation – ‘Hull Visual’ I think it was called, we had ‘Plastic Girl’ on there. This was the very beginnings of Rewritable CD’s, circa 1996.

++ Oh! And where did you usually record your songs? Did you work with a producer or did the band produce the songs?

Early on we recorded at a studio outside of Hull, in Gilberdyke. From ‘My Angel Died a Radio Death’ 1992 onwards we always recorded at local Hull community studio – The Warren, were would do most of our recording with different engineers over the next 5 years, often with very mixed results – the final mixes weren’t always quite up to what we wanted. On a few occasions we went and re-recorded songs again because we just weren’t happy with what we’d got, on some occasions some recordings were never included on our tapes because we just weren’t happy with them. After a while we ended up eventually sussing out the good studio engineers at the Warren and always tried to get them to do our sessions.

++ My favourite song of yours is “High with You”, wondering if you could tell me what inspired this song? What’s the story behind it?

Oh you’d have to ask Pik about that, all the lyrics were all his, and very open to interpretation, He could always explain them all, often quite deep, and often not what you thought they were about. ‘High with You’ was possibly the 2nd or 3rd song we ever wrote as a band. We recorded that song 3 times, each one an improvement on the last. The only version we put out was the one you will know.

++ If you were to choose your favorite Full Cry song, which one would that be and why?

Very tough question to choose a favourite from 8 years of songs. I particularly love the last few songs we recorded in 1998 (M07S Stream MO7S (SLOW) – Full Cry by Marcos Dinsdale | Listen online for free on SoundCloud  , Street Stories Stream Street Stories – Full Cry by Marcos Dinsdale | Listen online for free on SoundCloud  , Bluesmoke) which most people won’t have heard, as we never properly released them in any way, I think we were still evolving even after 8 years and it was good to end on a strong note, although we didn’t know it was the end at the time.

From the earlier stuff – ‘Headhum’  Full Cry – Headhum – YouTube – 9.5 minutes of epic sounding laid back floaty bass and guitar. We went in the studio with 4 minutes of song and jammed the final 5 minutes there. We were not very good at knowing how to finish songs, and had to make up endings on a few occasions in the studio, but not ever to this extreme. If we’d even tried to re-record this song, we would never have captured it better than we did here, it was totally different every time we played it live too, the second half of the song just became on onstage jam.  ‘ All be the same’, ‘Doubt’, from the early days – great songs and always good songs to play live.

Overall I’m probably most particularly proud of ‘Plastic Girl’ (29) Full Cry – Plastic Girl (promo) – YouTube – it’s a pretty timeless tune, the recording and mix came out spot on. Pik’s lyrics are more relevant now than ever. It’s got melody, hooks, structure, a great vocal and killer guitar riffs played by Stu from local Glam Punk giants ‘Rich Rags’. We were without a guitar player in the band (Howard had left) , I’d been playing bass and guitars on our new songs we were recording but couldn’t quite get what I had in my head for ‘Plastic Girl’, it was a power pop / punk tune and the guitar really needed to deliver, it occurred to me Stu would be the ideal guy for the job, he got to grips with the song after us playing it through once for him at a rehearsal and he knocked it out the park like the total pro he is. It was extremely satisfying for a song we’d been wrestling with on and off for nearly 2 years.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many?

Gigs were occasional, could be a couple a month, but then a couple of months without one. There were a few years during the mid-90s when the Hull scene was extremely healthy and there were several places putting on local bands most nights – Adelphi, Blue Lamp, the Room being the main ones, as well as a handful of pubs that put bands on often, you could be watching Travis playing to 50 people one week, Catatonia the next week, the Cranberries supporting some local band without any inkling how huge some of these would go on to be within a year or two. By the very late 90s it was pretty much again back to being the Adelphi as the only place to play.

++ And what were the best gigs in general that you remember? Any anecdotes you can share?

I remember our last gig pretty well. We didn’t know it was our last gig at the time. It was boiling hot July, or possibly August Saturday night at the Adelphi. I remember I was on antibiotics for Tonsillitis, obviously I shouldn’t have been drinking alcohol at all, but gigs to me were always about having fun, so too many beers, as often were drank before going onstage. It was our first and last gig with our New (Howard replacement) Guitarist – Steve No.1. It was just a really good, fun gig – very sweaty looking at photos of it, Pik ended up on the floor at some point. We even bizarrely finished the set of a jam of Rebel MC ‘Street Tuff’ !. It was a great way to finish our live career.

++ And were there any bad ones?

If you look up ‘Bad Gig’ on Google, I’m pretty sure ‘Full Cry at the Stage Door – Scarborough’  would come up top of that search. Well, it ought to if it doesn’t.  It was a trip to the Seaside on a coach with friends, fans, and our pals – local band – Ultra Violet Circus. We’d done this type of jaunt previously a couple of times – hired a coach, sold our own tickets for it making it a day out at the seaside and playing the gig on the night. On this occasion, weed, and far too much beer was involved in the performance. The venue was upstairs and like a greenhouse. Both guitars were totally out of tune for the whole gig, we were all at least a bit wasted or very wasted. There was a recording of it, there’s a song where I forget how to play it halfway thru and stop playing for some of it, the onstage sound was terrible, couldn’t hear anything we needed to, it was just a sweaty, out of tune, out of time horrendous mess. To top it all, the local music magazine editor from ‘Where’ magazine was there specifically to review it, I had to do some serious begging that he didn’t print a review of it.

++ There’s of course a legendary venue in Hull, The Adelphi. I was wondering how important it was for you as a music fan and for the band?

The Adelphi is one of the few most legendary and important venues in the UK, you can’t understate the importance of it. Starting in the early 80s, there’s not many venues, still going that can claim to have had the likes of Radiohead, Pulp, The La’s, Happy Mondays, Stone Roses, Oasis, Green Day to name a handful of bands grace their stage, many of those names would play on a regular basis over the years before making it big.

++ When and why did Full Cry stop making music? Were you involved in any other bands afterwards?

No dramatic ending, just life quietly taking over I suppose. By 1998, we were getting older and finally starting to be more responsible I guess – Full time Jobs / University courses / Uni degrees and we were just not getting together very often. Though we’d got another new guitarist, another Steve, to replace the previous Steve!. He was from across the river, so again co-ordinating rehearsals with him wasn’t always very easy. He was much younger and very keen and played some great guitar on our last few recordings (M07S, Street Stories and Bluesmoke) (29) Full Cry – Street Stories – YouTube

++ Has there been any Full Cry reunions?

No. Well, sort of a half reunion, for just one song in the USA !. Andrew (2nd guitarist) has lived in South Carolina USA since the mid-90s. We reconnected about 15 years ago and I went out to see him a couple of times, we put a covers band together on one occasion, rehearsed twice and played a gig in a dive bar in Charleston USA in 2009. In the middle of the set of covers we played Full Cry’s – ‘Plastic Girl’ –  Andrew really liked the song and wanted to do it, even though he had long left the band by the time we had written that. The yanks are a very lively and enthusiastic crowd, it was definitely one of the most fun gig’s I’ve played, it was a very crazy night in many ways, the bits that I can remember. Other than that occasion, no, never discussed any kind of reunion. Would be fun though definitely. Weird thing is I can still remember how to play the bass parts to nearly all of the songs, from 25 – 30 years ago , but yet honestly can’t remember how to play a lot of the songs I’ve written and recorded in the last few years !.

++ Was there any interest from the radio? TV?

No, back then local Radio didn’t really do any kind of local bands feature and certainly wouldn’t play anything from a cassette. Unlike today where it is extremely easy to get played, play live on air and get onto local radio with your music.

++ What about the press? Did they give you any attention?

We had local gig reviews several times and some reviews of our cassettes. We just weren’t that motivated to go out of our way to get ‘featured’ in stuff. There was a bit of an ‘in crowd’ and ‘favourites’ circle to much of the local scene, we knew we were outsiders from it and were ok with that. We formed an alliance with a couple of other bands who were similarly on the outside – Giantkind, Ultra Violet Circus, and would gig with these bands often. We were content within ourselves, weren’t trying to please anyone and certainly not competing with anyone trying to be “Hull’s next big thing” like so many bands were.

++ What about fanzines?

There was a local Hull magazine – ‘Where?’ magazine that ran for a few years. Like a few things during those times , It sort of came along at the right time and lasted for the right amount of time, I’m pretty sure most people who were in band bought it and supported it, Tim Joseph did a great job pretty much singlehandedly putting it together every couple of months.

++ Looking back in retrospect, what would you say was the biggest highlight for the band?

For me personally, simply just lasting as long as it did – 8 years of writing some great songs, always evolving musically and the friendships that came with it are the highlights for me.

++ Never been to Hull, would love to visit some day. So I’d love to ask you what would you suggest checking out in your town, like what are the sights one shouldn’t miss? Or the traditional food or drinks that you love that I should try?

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Thanks for discovering Full Cry and showing a detailed knowledge and genuine interest in our obscure 90s music. It’s mind boggling how stuff we put out on cassettes nearly 25 – 30 years ago has gotten into your hands and has also found it’s way onto the internet. It’s been a lot of fun revisiting the music, the memories and the times doing this, thank you.

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Listen
Full Cry – High with You

Thanks so much to Robert and Jeff for the interview! The Catburgers is one of my favourite discoveries this year. Terrific pop songs and a story that’s super interesting with connections to the TVPs, Dreamworld Records, and the Edinburgh 80s scene. And there’s even more exciting news, the band is releasing the “Dreamworld Sessions” 7″ soon! It will include 3 of their songs!  And there is also an accompanying cassette, “The Rocking Horse Demos“, with more songs too! So yeah, keep reading the interview and you will find out how to pre-order a copy. Now sit back and enjoy!

Thanks for inviting us both to be interviewed. Before answering your direct questions I should clear up some of the questions you have on your web page.

The Onion Cellar was club started by Stu Cant, Lind Irvine and myself Jeff Duffy. It much later morphed into Speed3 with a change of venue. There is a Facebook of the OC here https://www.facebook.com/onioncellar

Stu Cant wasnt in The Catburgers but he was in The Mysterons. The Mysterons were a band I created with Stu Cant on bass and Robert Jones on drums. And later Lenny Helsing (Green Telescope / Thanes) on keys. The Mysterons did play Queen Margaret Union with The Fizzbombs and We Free Kings.

Jeff And The Hasbeens is a name new to me but I can well understand it being synonymous with The Mysterons. It must have been the name used behind our backs !!

++ Hi Jeff and Robert! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? Are you still involved with music?

Robert:I play mandolin these days. I have only played live a handful of times since the early nineties. I occasionally write songs on my acoustic guitar.

Jeff: I am taking somewhat a backseat from music at the moment due to ill-health but I have a third LP with my band JS International ready to record. I also played second guitar in Edinburghs Shock And Awe for 7 years until recently.

https://www.facebook.com/JSInternationalSuperStars/

https://thejeffsnipergroup.bandcamp.com

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063558757857

++ Let’s go back in time. What are your first music memories? Do you remember what your first instrument was? How did you learn to play it? What sort of music did you listen to at home while growing up?

++ Had you been in other bands before The Catburgers? What about the rest of the band members? Are there any recordings?

Robert:As soon as I got the drum kit I began making music with school friends. This was around 1981. We spent our time figuring out how to cover Joy Division songs. We got hold of a portastudio and so there are some recordings. The band was called Rejection Level. We never played live, and stopped when most of us went to uni. When I got to uni I spent a year separated from my drums. I got them shipped up in second year, and joined a band of schoolfriends from St Andrews. We were called A Walk Through H (named after an early Peter Greenaway film – pretentious or what!). Stuart, the Catburgers bassist, played bass in that band. He and I went to see the TV Personalities at a gig in Edinburgh in Autumn 1985 at Moray House, and we were both totally blown away. We came out of the gig and basically said to each other immediately “we need to quit the band we are in and start making music like that!” I was a drummer, but I figured out some guitar chords, plucked up the courage to start singing and started writing songs.

Jeff: I was in a band called Neoteric Noyade prior to The Catburgers. No known recording thankfully. The then bass player Mark Shade now roadies guitar with The Proclaimers. The then singer Stu Munro now drums for JS International after a gap of 30 odd years.