Thanks so much to Michel and Marjolijn for the interview! I wrote about Formica some weeks ago when I thought it was a good time to feature a Dutch band on the blog and was lucky to get in touch with both of them and even better, they were up to answer my questions! They also clear some doubts I had, made some corrections of my previous post and tell the whole picture of Formica! The band released just 2 singles and they were truly great, if you haven’t heard them yet, this is a good time to discover them! Oh! And they shared with me this exclusive cool photo of the band which was taken by Kathalijne van Zutphen.

++ Hi Michel and Marjolijn! Thanks so much for being up for this interview. How are you doing? Are you still making music?

Michel: I’m well, thanks. Not doing much music anymore, although I have an ‘internet band’ called Transatlantic Bunnies. So far I’ve put out one 7” on the Australian Insipid Vinyl label. The A-side (“Formula One Generation”, a song written by Steve Gregory for the Pooh Sticks) was sung by Lauren Rocket from L.A. band Rocket and the B-side (“Girl’s Going Crazy For The La La La”, written by Steve and me for International Language) has Sara Johnston from Canadian band Bran Van 3000 singing. I still haven’t met Lauren, but I did meet Sara in 2015, not long after the single was released. She was on tour with Evan Dando and they played a gig in Utrecht, so we finally met and did that song as part of her set, which was a like a dream come true for me.

Marjolijn: I’m not making any music anymore, just listening to music.

++ And are you still based in Utrecht? How was Utrecht back in the mid 90s? What were your usual hangouts? The venues you used to go to?

Michel: I’m still living in Utrecht, Marjolijn is living close to Utrecht and Noortje moved to Amsterdam.

Marjolijn: We used to go to places like Tivoli (Utrecht) and the Melkweg (Amsterdam), to see bands…

Michel: …like Blur, Pulp, Oasis and even Kula Shaker.

++ As I was saying on my blog post there is very little information about your band on the web so this is for sure a great opportunity to learn more about you. Also I must say when it comes to indiepop, not much is known about The Netherlands either. So maybe you can recommend some bands?

Michel: As far as we know, there weren’t many indiepop bands in the Netherlands. If there were any, we didn’t know them.

++ Going back, when you were kids, what sort of music did you grow up listening to? What was your first instrument? and how did you get it?

Michel: 70’s rock: the Stones, Alice Cooper, the Sweet, Slade, Status Quo… And then punk happened. I could never choose between guitar and drums, but my parents gave me an acoustic guitar when I was 11, or so. Years later, when I joined a band as a drummer, I bought a drumkit.

Marjolijn: Noortje and I were listening most of the time to Britpop, Elastica, Blur and also bands like the Ramones and the Kinks. I started playing clarinet and after that I started playing guitar.

++ Let’s talk about Formica, or was it Formica 2000 (!?)? What’s the story of the name of the band?

Michel: A friend of ours came up with the name Formica, because it sounded a bit like Elastica! We thought that was funny.

Marjolijn: We have no idea why we added 2000.

++ Had you been involved in any other bands? I know Michel was in a few, what about the girls?

Marjolijn: Just Formica. Noortje too.

++ How did Formica start as a band? How did you all know each other? How did you meet?

Marjolijn: Noortje, Edske and I knew each other from school. We started playing music together. We met Michel at DaCapo. And he became the drummer.

++ What would you say influenced the sound of Formica?

Michel: Britpop, punk rock and Phil Spector.

++ Marjolijn, you took the photos for the sleeve art. Nowadays you are a photographer. Were you a photographer already then?

Marjolijn: It was just a hobby at the time. I studied architecture. But two years ago I started taking photography more seriously, and I just finished my study photography.

++ How did the relationship with Steve Gregory from Fierce Recordings and The Pooh Sticks start? And how come he was not part of the band, only credited for the lyrics?

Michel: This is a long story. The Pooh Sticks “Alan McGee” CD boxset came with a little booklet in which it read: “Are you in a band? Everybody should be in a band. Let us know about it.” Or something like that. Just for fun I sent a cassette with recordings of some of my bands. One of them was Beatle Hans. I then got a letter from Steve/Fierce asking if anyone was releasing the Beatle Hans stuff. If not, Fierce Recordings was up for it. And by the way, would the band (minus singer Hans) be interested in recording the next Pooh Sticks album, which became “Great White Wonder”. Me and bass player Hard Cor (Cor van Ingen) played on two more Pooh Sticks albums: “Millionseller” and “Optimistic Fool”. After that Steve and I released a 7” and a CD on Sympathy For The Record Industry as International Language. (By the way: “Rodney’s English Disco” by Helen Love is not the International Language tune.) We enjoyed writing songs together, so we also wrote a couple for Formica. But Formica was always just the girls and me. Oh, and the 3 Formica girls’ first recording experience was doing some backing vocals on the International Language tune “Christmas Will Be Magic Again”, which first appeared on a christmas CD on Sympathy For The Record Industry.

++ And who was the bassist for Formica? I see on the first record Edske is credited, while on the second it has Hard Cor, Ron and Hanneke. Why was there never a proper bassist in the band?

Michel: Edske left the band after the first 7”. On the “Gameboy” EP we had Cor on two songs, my brother Ron on one, and Marjolijn’s younger sister Hanneke on the fourth song. For the gigs we had Ron on bass.

++ How did the creative process work for the band?

Marjolijn: Michel and Steve wrote the songs. We rehearsed at home. Instead of rehearsing we sometimes played our Gameboys. That’s why we wrote the Gameboy song.

Michel: I asked the girls to write lyrics for a song called “Look At Your Game, Boy”, which has nothing to do with “Look At Your Game, Girl” by Charles Manson. Marjolijn’s sister Hanneke added some lines too, so that’s why two Hoelens are credited on the label.

++ Your first 7″  was released on Spirit of ’86 who were also connected to The Pooh Sticks. On this single the brilliant “Johnny & Anita” was included. I must ask, who were Johnny and Anita? What’s the story behind this song?

Michel: Johnny’s and Anita’s were annoying (Dutch) youths on scooters who liked house music and had crappy haircuts.

++ Your second 7″ came out on the fab Damaged Good label How did you end up releasing with them? And I must ask, how come two English labels for your releases, and no Dutch ones? Why was that?

Michel: In 1995 Hue Pooh Stick had his Spirit Of ’86 label. I told him I wanted to join the girls’ band and he said that if I did he would release whatever we’d record. I’d already offered my services as a drummer, but the girls told me I was too old. Fair enough. I was twice their age. But when I told them they could make a record if they had me on drums they agreed to give it a try. Spirit Of ’86 was distributed through Damaged Goods/Shellshock, so after that first single Ian from Damaged Goods asked if we could do one for his label too.

++ You worked on the recordings with Hans Blieb twice, what did he add to the band in the recording studio?

Michel: Nothing really. He owned an affordable studio and was the engineer. I did production and mixing.

++ Then there were no more releases by the band, why? No compilation appearances? Are there any unreleased songs by the band?

Michel: There is one song we wrote but never recorded properly. For the gigs we chose a couple of covers by bands we liked, like “Time Bomb” by the Ramones and Josie Cotton’s “Johnny Are You Queer”.

++ And from all of the Formica songs, which one is your favourite and why?

Michel: I like “Wire” and “Cross My Mind”, ‘cause they’re slightly Spector-esque.

Marjolijn: “Johnny and Anita”.

++ Did you play many gigs? Maybe any in the UK? Are there any in particular that you remember? What were your best ones?

Michel: We only did two gigs, both of them in Utrecht in 1998. But we almost played our debut gig in London as part of some MTV thing. Unfortunately the Fierce Panda label, like Damaged Goods also related to Shellshock distribution, had one of their acts play there instead. I think our first gig was the best one, opening for the Donnas. A great night.

++ And were there any bad ones?

Marjolijn: The second one was not as good as the first one. Haha!

++ Did you get much attention by the music press? What about radio?

Michel: I don’t think I ever saw a review and I definitely never heard us on the radio.

++ When and why did you split? What did you all do afterwards? Did you continue making music?

Michel: Like Abba, we never really split up.

Marjolijn: Noortje moved to England to study. It became too much hassle at the time. We just kept in touch but didn’t make any music anymore. Nowadays Michel and I meet up in town to take pictures sometimes. Our new hobby.

++ I must ask, where do you think you had more support, in the UK or in The Netherlands?

Michel: We did an interview with a local music magazine. I don’t think anybody outside Utrecht knew about us, except some friends and a couple of girls from Rotterdam who had a Britpop fanzine.

++ Michel, I must ask even though it is not strictly Formica related, but the single “Go Eliza” by The Nightblooms is truly brilliant, and you produced it! How was that experience?

Michel: I didn’t really produce “Go Eliza”, but I was there during the recordings (and played a twangy guitar part in the choruses). Studio engineer Ward, who would also work on the first two Pooh Sticks albums that we recorded in Utrecht, asked me to come to the studio for the first Nightblooms session there, ‘cause he thought I would understand their kind of music better than he did at the time. That was about a year before “Go Eliza”. That first session remains unreleased, although I have a cassette of it somewhere. The Nightblooms are nice people and we got along really well, so I was there again for the “Go Eliza” session. I don’t think I was present for any Nightblooms sessions after that, although I went to England with them in 1990, as a guitar roadie and to play some guitar on their John Peel session. I also played guitar on one song on their first album and I was their manager for a while.

++ And today, what do you do? Any hobbies that you have aside from music?

Michel: I like analogue photography, shooting portraits mainly.

Marjolijn: Photography

++ There was a comment on my blog post saying that one of you guys worked at Da Capo Records. Is that right? How is Da Capo Records? I’ve been told many times that it is a fantastic record shop!

Michel: I worked at Da Capo for 22 years. That’s where I met the Formica girls. I stopped working there in 2008. Three years later the owner died and on December 31st 2011 the shop closed. A sad day. It was a vinyl collector’s shop and probably the best one in Holland.

++ One last question, I’ve never been to Utrecht so I’m quite curious, what would you recommend not missing out? Sights? Traditional food? Bands?

Marjolijn: We recommend going up the Dom tower. Beautiful view.

Michel: Food! Broodje Mario and Vocking worst.

++ Thanks again! Anything else you’d like to add?

Marjolijn: In your article you mentioned a Noortje in Switzerland. That’s another Noortje. Noortje from Formica is a fashion accessories designer and she lives in Amsterdam.

Michel: We appreciate your research and love for the music.

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Listen
Formica – Johnny & Anita

Thanks so much to Paschalis Plissis for the interview!! I wrote a few weeks back about The Jaywalkers on the blog and thanks to Ian Skiadas I was able to get in touch with Paschalis, founding members of one of the most legendary bands from Greece!! There has always been little information about the band, and their one and only record is very rare (I’m still looking for a copy!), so there was no better chance to learn the story behind this classic band! Hope you enjoy it!

++ Thanks so much Paschalis for getting in touch! Very happy to know the story of The Jaywalkers. But how are you today? Are you still involved in music?
The Jaywalkers today are George Mouchtaridis who is the manager of radio ”Pepper”96.6 a.k.a.”sergeant Pepper” having a morning show Greek time 10-12 you can listen on line, has already curated 4 ”The bright side of the road” compilations and is preparing another one. So he is very much immersed in music.

Yiannis Divolis works and works some more but still has occasional gigs as a folk-”laikos dimotikos” musician playing and also singing and used to manage night clubs with Greek folk music.
His younger brother Vassilis has a permanent job as a percussionist in the Athens municipal band the ”Filarmoniki” and has collaborated over the years with various artists i.e.Kristi Stasinopoulou, Avaton et al.
As for myself I’ve been a professional oboe player for nearly 30 years playing in various orchestras and I now hold the first chair in the Greek national radiotelevision’s Contemporary orchestra.

Unfortunately the youngest member of The Jaywalkers Giorgos Manos is sadly gone many years ago and is always fondly remembered through his bass playing. A great talent.

++ Whereabouts in Greece did you grow up? Did you have any bands prior to The Jaywalkers? I know you were in Migraine, right?

We all grew up in the greater Athens area. Gio Mou and I were friends from school and the same neighborhood and I went to Athens conservatory with Yiannis Divolis who introduced us to his brother and Giorgos Manos so The Jaywalkers were formed from the ashes of our first group Migraine.

++ What sort of music were you into while growing up?  What was your first guitar do you remember? How did you get it?

As we grew up we listened to various types of music. Gio’s older brother Paschalis (same name!) was our musical mentor making us tapes of artists like Van Morrison, Bowie, Springsteen, Peter Hammil, and of course we listened to all the sixties big names.In 1977 I went to England and returned with a bi-polar musical taste for classical and punk-new wave which I sort of inflicted to the gang through parties and communal vinyl auditions.Great days indeed!

First guitar I still have was a Yamaha G55 classical which my late father bought me cause my grades were good I guess. I used to throw a mic in her belly and feedback for hours till I got my first electric a secondhand hardtail 74 Fender Strat for which I worked for 2 months to be able to afford. It was and still is The Jaywalkers guitar.

++ And how did your music evolve from a punk band like Migraine to a jingle jangly guitar pop band like The Jaywalkers?

The evolution of our style from Migraine to Jaywalkers wasn’t all that big, considering we always aimed to be eclectic in both our use of influences and choice of musical directions.Those years in the first half of the eighties were one of the most exciting in music and we felt a part of it all with overflowing creativity and joy of life in all aspects.Of course one can argue that this is often the case with what one does in the younger years but in retrospect it was objectively a great era. Migraine was named after a Gang of Four lyric(this heaven gives me migraine off Natural’sNot In It from Entertainment LP.So Migraine was not a punk band per se more of New Wave and when we introduced a sax in the rock format we got to sounding like James Chance and the Contortions, while we even covered songs by the Zounds or The Sound.We sort of carried all the spectrum to The Jaywalkers with the addition of our new found kinship with the paisley underground and of course with the gigantic R.E.M.We got to play live with a host of bands that we liked and they liked us right back! What glorious moments!Dream Syndicate,Green on Red, Fleshtones, The Chills from NZ,The Triffids from Australia and Watermelon Men from Sweden.So a whole tapestry of great groups popped(sic) up in our sound which of course was firmly based on the Beatles legacy.Hence the name Jaywalkers as we felt we were Jaywalking in music’s avenues jumping from lane to lane of sonic variety.

++ How were those early days of the band? Where did you practice? Where in Athens did you usually hang out? Were there any good bands at the time that you followed?

Early to last days of both Migraine and The Jaywalkers were happening rehearsal like in a derelict two-room pre world war  2 house in Byron municipal district of Athens. We shared this dumb with two great bands of the times Yell-o-Yell and the Headleaders. Our greatest fear was not to have our equipment stolen an unfortunate event that thankfully didn’t happen.Creativity and rock n’roll spirit was dripping all over the walls as the place’s sole window never opened not once in the near six years we spent there.To be young and sweaty…and breathless!
Well the Greek scene of the early eighties was full of interesting groups with most of them we have played together and were friends. Cpt. Nefos and their follow up Low noise ,Villa21,Yell-o-Yell South of no North, the punk veterans MagicDeSpell, the garage kings Last Drive the passionate Anti Troppau Council the northern psychedelics The Mushrooms, the greek singing top group  from Thessaloniki Treepes (holes),Blue Light, and more.We used to move around the live night spots of Athens either performing or jamming or supporting one another.Quite wonderful times!

++ And how did the creative process work for the band? Who wrote the songs?

The songs were written by George Mou and myself in the very loud solitude of our rooms as far as the music was concerned and just about anywhere as far as lyrics would go.We would introduce the new babies to the rest of the band and either be ridiculed on the spot or proceed to birth and grooming to be introduced to the live set or potential material for recording in the future as not every song was deemed ”live”material.Everyone had a lot of input and ideas flew all over the room as it was obvious that we were all very opinionated music-wise due to conservatorial backgrounds and strong personalities.The end result was to everybody’s satisfaction though.

++ Did you ever consider writing songs in Greek?

Writing songs in Greek always seemed awkward as it seemed anytime a greek lyric would turn up something very un rock ‘n roll melodically would surface basically diametrically opposite from our core repertoire! So we carried on with international intentions! Ha ha ha!

++ How did you end up signing to a big label, to Virgin?

We knew the guys from Virgin Hellas which by that time was run by the guru Yiannis Petridis and we had them listen to our demo tape.They found it quite good and the rest is history.

++ The songs were recorded at Recording Studios by Manolis Vlachos. How was that experience? Was it your first time at a proper studio?

Working with Manolis Vlachos was for us a once in a lifetime experience.He was extremely kind with us greenies was enthusiastic with our songs, softspoken good-humored and he used to work in the U.S. which guaranteed another level of production.We seldom had a chance to record in a proper professional studio so it was not a surprise when some of us declared they wanted to move there!

++ Who is the boy on the cover photo of the record?

Our sadly deceased friend Sotiris Terzidis was working as a teacher in the esteemed Panagiotopoulos school.He used to take photos of the kids during the intervals while they were playing and mocking about .We happened to look at some of these photos at his place and were immediately smitten with the particular one that became the cover of our mini-l.p.Turns out it was the son of the Mikis Theodorakis’ famous singer Petros Pandis called, as I found years later, Dimitris.

++ I’ve played and danced many times to “(You Can’t Be) Happy all the Time”. I have to ask, how did this song come to be? What’s the story behind such a hit?

“You can’t be…” What a song. Always makes me feel goosebumps yet i’m quite conscious of having written it and proud of the result of the band’s collaboration and all out enthusiastic disposition which carried this song so well through all these years.The story goes like this;Our friends started a promotion company and we all participated one way or other and the first group to be invited for a concert was the Watermelon Men from Sweden.We hang out with them, became good friends appreciated their songs and bittersweet approach to life showed them around even played beach soccer with them.There was definite feedback and the result I suppose was this also bittersweet song that talks about lost friends lost innocence and has a quirkiness about it that belies the world weariness of the lyrics. And to conclude I confess I was trying to sing in the style of Eric Illes their singer a Swedish brother to me. To the day I remember singing the song with my acoustic guitar on my then country house-now permanent residence-balcony to a group of friends and I’d like to believe that their enthusiastic first listen to ”You can’t be (Happy all the time) led to their helping us in financing the recording of our demo tape that led to the making of our mini L.P.

++ On the 12″ there’s a cover of The Beatles. Who made that choice? Were they a big influence on you? Is “Tomorrow Never Knows” your favourite song by theirs?

All of us absolutely adore the Beatles.We’ve played some of their songs in various concert situations but for  an official recording it had to be something special.In my opinion A Day In The Life and Tomorrow Never Knows are the most ambitious songs they ever recorded and present a real challenge for anyone to try and cover them.So we figured lets take our chance since we aimed for a result representing our possibilities as a group away from the typical rock format employing as it were the Divolis’ bros  experience with Greek folk music.Hopefully we managed to re-invent a masterpiece while staying true to its spirit.Really proud of the result actually!

++ Which other bands would you say were big influences to The Jaywalkers? Any Greek bands?

Influences?Too many actually.As stated before that era was boiling with great music freshly made to top an already huge heritage of the past three decades. Gio Mou and I were at the time working as journalists and record critics in prestigious magazines therefore being exposed to the best new music that was released at the time, discovering kindred artists from the U.S. and U.K. that were off the radar for the general public.Boy we were lucky!But I won’t shy away from naming some; Beatles, Stones, Kinks, Who, always obvious suspects,also Beach Boys Byrds and of course Dylan.Forward to The Jam,The Clash, The CureThe Ramones Talking Heads also The Smiths ,R.E.M.,Dream Syndicate Long Ryders Green on Red and less obvious choices like Gun Club,Robyn Hitchcock, Elvis Costello  Elvis Presley and Frank Sinatra.The Greek bands of the time were friends and colleagues more than influences but of course there was feedback and healthy antagonism with the likes of The Last Drive, Anti Troppau Council The Mushrooms,Blue Light or Low Noise.

++ And if you were to record another cover, what would be your top choices?

To record another cover it would have to be something special again as we aim to add some of our own views on the matter.I maintain that a cover should be a tip of the hat to the original and also to shed a new light on a song we obviously love and got inspiration from.Having said that there just so many choices to pick from and pointless to name some but in the course of our live shows we covered songs by Elvis,R.E.M.,The Sound,The Beatles The Box Tops or Bobby Darin so the diversity shows  what we might choose.

++ I read that The Jaywalkers 12″ was a commercial failure. Is that story true? What happened?

Commercial failure could take  its toll on the very existence of groups ,but it is a reality one must face at some point as an unfortunate but unavoidable possibility.Well the”market” for groups and english singing at that-in Greece is very limited and that’s understating it.Virgin Greece went out on a limp releasing the record so the  commercial failure didn’t sit comfortably with any future plans to make a follow up so no follow up was produced.

++ The only compilation appearance I know that The Jaywalkers had was on the tape “Straight to Hellas” where you contributed the song “Pale Blue Eyes”. It sounds much different to the 12″. Was this an earlier song perhaps? How did you end up in this compilation?

The inclusion of Pale blue eyes in that compilation was our last-and not that good I must admit-hurrah.We sort of faded after that amidst obligations with the army, families formatting, and job obligations.We remained close but not so much in the music playing way.Life happens and in George’s Manos case an untimely death happened most unfortunately.

++ Are there any other compilation appearances from back in the day?

To my knowledge we had no other compilation appearances apart from possible live bootlegs but I think it’s most unlikely.

++ Are there any other recordings, unreleased songs, by the band?

Songs over the live years and after have accumulated waiting for their hopeful outing and some of them are recorded not in a fully professional manner mind but as a future plan they could turn up.

++ And from the whole Jaywalkers repertoire, what would you say was your favourite song and why?

Favourite songs vary depending on mood  snd season but the ones included in the mini-l.p. are always topping.Having said that there are also other favourites like the obvious live stalwarts River and The sun’s not gonna wake me tomorrow.

++ What about gigs? Did you play many? What were the good venues back then? And are there any particular gigs you remember fondly?

There were some clubs that every group gigged in as the were part of the scene.In the Migraine days there was the legendary ”Pegasus” home of the new wave, Kyttaro club, Hima (were even Nick Cave &the Bad Seeds performed, the former Mad club renamed Cat’s Meow and the largest of all the Club 22 where acts like Green on Red,Nick Cave, The Wipers or Nico appeared alongside supports from local groups like The Jaywalkers.The most legendary and successful club of course was ”Rodon live ”where every artist of note performed and I’m proud to say that The Jaywalkers were the first group to perform there as a support to the Triffids, a fact unfortunately not stated in the book about ”Rodon” that was published after the club’s termination and eventual change into a-alas-super market.
We remember fondly the gigs we played support to great artists like Green on Red in club 22 ,the aforementioned Rodon gig with the Triffids and a summer festival in Veakeion theater in Peiraius where the headliners were The Dream Syndicate. Having said that gigs were scarce therefore every time we got the chance to play live we relished the moment as you can understand!

++ Aside from Athens, did you play any other cities?

We played in a club in Patras and that final gig in a summer festival in Preveza where ”Pale Blue Eyes” was recorded for that compilation, and that was about it.It was just unfortunate that we didn’t play in Thessaloniki-a rock city with a big music scene.

++ Did you get much attention from the music press or radio?
The radio at the time was not that friendly for english speaking Greek groups although we got played by certain indie shows  that aired in those early days of non-state radio.
As for the press there existed an awkward situation as I mention earlier G. Mouctarides and I were journalist for the esteemed ”Sound and hi-fi” magazine therefore we were considered to be ”parts of the system”.That led to negative reviews or lack of reviews altogether ignoring good moments of the band, maybe it was jealousy or some kind of complex ,but it sure held the progress of the group media-wise.Years after it was confessed that the true value of The Jaywalkers was unjustly overlooked but of course as the saying goes the damage was done. Oh well water under the bridge…

++ And was there an important fanzine culture in Greece at the time? Did you get featured in them?

The fanzine culture of the times consisted mainly of one-off editions which sometimes were the vehicle for releasing some tapes of live shows.The notable exception was the ”Rollin Under” fanzine.To be honest I am not aware of any feature of The Jaywalkers but that could have eluded us as the circulation of these fanzines was very limited.

++ Then what happened to the band? When and why did you split? Did you continue making music afterwards?

he festival in Preveza in the summer 1988 was as I mentioned earlier the last live moment of the group. After that there were a few rehearsals but no more gigs due to army obligations and new families changing the whole picture. After that we certainly never gave up on music both as a job or a hobby. You might want to check out a group myself and some local friends set up called The Mercy Run.Had some gigs but no proper releases  exist only some studio recordings of songs I wrote with our singer Bob Crossley.

++ I think a lot of people, me included, were introduced to your music thanks to the compilation “Try a Little Sunshine”. This compilation became very important as it gave a new light to Greek guitar pop. What would you say are your favourite Greek indiepop bands?

There was a lot of potential in the early 80’s greek indie rock scene and talents sprung out all over.Some of our favourite bands were Cpt Nefos, Blue Light, The Mushrooms, Yell-oYell, Femmes Fatales, Anti-Troppau Council and Last Drive.

++ Also in the last decade or so you have played some reunion gigs. Is there any more gigs planned for the near future? And is there a chance for new Jaywalkers songs some day?

These last years in Greece haven’t being particularly good for indie groups due to the financial crisis.Although clubs like s.i.x. d.o.g.g.s. and fuzz are making a name for the ”underground” scene in Athens it is quite difficult for groups to be consistent in their live performances.As for reunion gigs we really enjoyed the ones we had and we certainly keep our hopes up for new material to be recorded and released but the difficulties seem at times unbeatable.Songs do exist though and they will eventually surface!

++ This year I see you will also participate in a new compilation named “A Sparkle From the Past” that will be released by Make Me Happy. Care telling me a bit about this new record?

This latest compilation will apparently include various Greek groups of the 80’s and early 90’s which didn’t quite fall in the general public’s radar and The Jaywalkers will participate with the -in my opinion-superb demo version of ”Good Day Sunshine”. From what I know this compilation is being released by a group of that era’s fans very keen on making a party of it all as it involves a live event for this release.

++ And today, what are you up to? Do you still make songs? Any other hobbies that you have?

As for songwriting it happens sparingly but with the aid of the current technology it is easier to record and keep in the archives for future use. As you’ve already seen I try to find some creative comfort in sketching and drawing and even-ambitiously enough-plan to participate in the Inktober challenge! Wish me luck.My true hobbies though is driving my two adolescent daughters around to various lessons and activities.Interestingly enough Gio Mou invited me to play guitar for his younger daughter’s recording of her song “Thieving Star” which will appear in the next ”Bright Side Of The Road” compilation, so you could say there is a continuation of the group through our children!

++ One last question, if one was to visit Athens, where should one go check out bands? And aside from the Acropolis what should one visit?

Well it’s been a marathon nine days Interview but a lot of fun nonetheless as it was a big trip down memory lane and a huge privilege to be able to share all these moments and thoughts with people across the globe! I’ll be very happy to show you around Athens sights and spots and invite you to taste some of the wonderful dishes my wife Dinah cooks. So till we meet in person it’s been an honour answering your questions  and thank you Roque for everything!

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Listen
The Jaywalkers – (You Can’t Be) Happy all the Time

Thanks a thousand to Patrick O’Sullivan for the interview! I wrote about the Irish band So She Said knowing very little a few weeks ago. Somehow Patrick got in touch with me through Twitter and the rest is history. Now at last I learn a bit of the story of the Dublin band that even though didn’t release a proper record released a few songs on compilations. And how good those songs are! If you haven’t heard them before, it is now a good time to discover them!

++ Thanks so much Patrick for the interview! How are you doing? How was the summer? When was the last time you picked up your guitar?

Hello Roque

I’m fine, thank you. The summer was a bit weird – personal stuff – but life is good and I’m enjoying it!

I last picked up my guitar yesterday. I’m writing a song at the moment and I love to pick up the guitar and see how the song has progressed since I last played it. It’s coming along grand.

++ Let’s start from the beginning, what are your first musical memories? What sort of music was heard at home while growing up? What was your first instrument?

First memories…my mother had been a professional singer before she got married so there was always music in the house. I was listening to Andy Williams and Johnny Cash as a young child (and I thought it was great that they enjoyed a surge of popularity years later when I was an adult). When I was 8 we lived in Zambia for a while and I had two cassettes with me – Jim Reeves and Johnny Cash. I got to know every moment of those records. Sometimes we would go to a cabaret in the Intercontinental Hotel in Lusaka and my sisters and I would sing (separately, not together). I remember singing ‘A Boy Named Sue’, ‘Bimbo’ and others. I thought I was very clever for interchanging words from the songs with the local parlance, so “dollars” became “kwacha”, etc.
But my first ‘wow’ moment was probably when I was about 13 and heard The Beatles and it blew my world apart. I knew then I had to be in a band. Shortly afterwards I was playing out on the road and my next-door neighbour was playing The Kinks in his house and I was mesmerised – the guitar sound and beat and voice – it was like stepping into a totally new world where the rules were all different.
My first and only instrument was the guitar. After that Beatles introduction I bought a guitar off some chap from school for something like £4. It was an awful thing. But I started to teach myself and practice with a friend on the road. I got some lessons but I was mainly self-taught.

++ Before So She Said there was The Delegates. Care telling me a bit about this band? Any recordings? What was the lineup? How did you sound?

The Delegates was more an idea than a real band. I had written a couple of songs and was playing guitar with my friend. Then at 17 my father got me a summer job in Vienna and I was away from my friends and my girlfriend. So I wrote lots of letters and set up a fan club for the band that didn’t really exist. We even got written about in some music fanzine! We did have a couple of public performances – at my sister’s wedding and another time in our old school. I got back to Dublin and started writing more and more songs and then I formed So She Said with Anto Healy and Brian King. And now I was in a real band!

++ Aside from So She Said and The Delegates, had you been involved with any other bands?

No. Although I’ve been recording some of my songs in recent times with a variety of musicians and for the moment I am calling that loose collective The Stuts.

++ How was Dublin back then? What were your usual hangouts? Your favourite venues to go see bands? Were there any like-minded bands that you were friends with?

Dublin was home and it was great. But when I look back on it the city was extremely quiet compared to nowadays. I grew up on Cedarwood Road, the same road as Bono, Gavin Friday, and Gugi. Bono obviously was in U2, while Gavin Friday and Guggi were in The Virgin Prunes. Around the corner, Alan Downey was in Aslan. It was amazing really ‘cause this was just one road on Dublin’s northside. There were bands everywhere. There were three or four bands among my friends. I don’t recall too much about Bono but I clearly remember seeing Fionan Hanvey (Gavin Friday) walk up the road in a dress and I was … amazed! And to me Derek Rowan (Guggi) and his brothers were the long-haired lads near the shops with the motorbikes. But they always seemed friendly!
The place I remember most about going to see bands was The Baggot Inn. That was quite a legendary venue on the Dublin circuit. And the band of the moment was The Blades. Watching them live in The Baggot was an experience. But you were brought back to earth by the rush for the last bus from O’Connell Street, which was more than a mile away and left at 11.30pm sharp (the idea of a taxi didn’t even enter our heads).

++ How did the band start? How did you all know each other?

I can’t remember exactly how it started but I know that I was completely intent on starting a band. I met Anto through my girlfriend and we got on well.
About the same time, some mod bloke from the club we used to frequent (Bubbles) decided to try starting a band; the result was a room full of people, mostly standing around looking at us, in a rehearsal studio called Furlongs on Capel Street in Dublin. I can’t remember how I came to be there (‘cause I didn’t know these people) but I was there and so was Anto. He played guitar, but at some point in the session he was messing on the drum kit, playing ‘Down In The Tube Station At Midnight’ by The Jam. I was impressed and asked him to join my non-existent band as drummer, despite the fact that he had no kit and could just about play.
I think I then persuaded one of my school friends, Brian King, to play bass. Anto got us cheap rehearsal space above Walton’s, the famous music shop in Dublin, and we were off.

++ Why the name So She Said? What’s the story behind it?

It was the title of one of our songs. I suggested it to the lads one Saturday afternoon after band practice, in a pub on Parnell Street called The Ivy Rooms.

++ And what would you say were the influences in the band?

Initially Anto and I had similar influences I would say – The Jam, The Beatles, Style Council, The Blades, a lot of 60s RnB. Brian’s taste was probably funkier but he also liked heavy rock and metal. I got more into bands like Prefab Sprout, The Smiths and Elvis Costello as I began to write more.

++ How was the creative process for the band?

I wrote the songs. I brought them into the rehearsal room and played them for the other two. I was probably a bit of a control freak about the arrangements as well.

++ Two songs of yours, “So Happy” and “Let Me Out” appeared on the compilation “Swimming Out of the Pool” on the Danceline label. How did you end up there? Were you familiar the rest of the bands on the compilation?

I think that was organised by two music aficionados who were well known on the Dublin music scene – Pete The Roz and Steady Eddie! They just asked me if we’d like to go on the record. We were gigging around town at the time and had probably been in a newspaper or two.
I think I knew a couple of the bands. I think I knew The Outpatients, just from playing the same venues.

++ And what do you remember from the recording session for those songs?

I remember the excitement of going to the studio on a Sunday morning in March. I remember being very impressed with the fact that the sound engineer had worked on U2’s albums. I remember him getting us to play acoustic guitar under the electric guitar and thinking that was very clever.

++ “At Home in June” was a song that won the Hot Press/Murphy’s song of the month in 1989. What did that mean? What was the prize?

I’m not quire sure of the sequencing but I remember Hot Press beginning to take an interest in what we were doing. Hot Press was the only music magazine in Ireland and was read by every musician and fan so it was great to have them on your side. I remember the general manager of Hot Press, Jackie Hayden, coming to the studio to sit in on the session when we were mixing ‘At Home In June’. I know the prize included some art work by the Hot Press graphics designer for our record/cassette. Arthur Matthews was the designer from Hot Press. He later went on to find fame and fortune as the co-writer of the comedy series Father Ted. We may have been interviewed by the magazine. I really can’t remember what else we got apart from the publicity.

++ Those are the 3 recordings of yours I know. Were there any more? Maybe some demo tapes?

Yeah there were a few more demos but I wasn’t very happy with them. In fact one of them – ‘Lost And Found’ – is one of my favourite songs from the era but I really wasn’t happy with what happened to it in the studio. I think I’ll rerecord it some day.

++ I really like those 3 songs, was wondering if perhaps in a sentence or two, you could tell me what they are about?

‘So Happy’ – being a teenager in Dublin at that time.
‘Let Me Out’ – An early foray into writing a love song.
‘At Home In June’ – this song chronicles a sort of mini break down I had. When I listen to it it’s like watching a movie of my falling into a ditch and then scraping and crawling to get back out. Something strange happened in the writing of that song, something I hadn’t felt up until then. I was losing all control and it terrified me. I was being physically sick – and these words just spewed out of me. The music too…it was different to what I had written before. I’m quite proud of that one!

++ And from your whole repertoire, which would be your favourite song and why?

I think most songwriters will give you a different answer depending on what they most recently worked on. I have a soft spot for ‘So Happy’ and I think my writing went up a notch with ‘At Home In June’. The song I’ve just recorded recently with Anto pleases me a lot – ‘Come And Go’. I wrote a song for my little girl – ‘Carry Me’. There’s another one ‘Eternity’…there are a lot of songs in the repertoire at this stage and thankfully I have a small place in my heart for most of them.

++ Was there any interest from Danceline to release you? What about other labels? I find it strange that you didn’t get to release a proper record!

I don’t know if Danceline were into releasing bands on their own. I think they were just there to give bands some exposure. No, there was no activity from other labels. I think there may have been an enquiry from a publishing company at one stage but nothing that ever went anywhere. I suppose the fact that there were so many bands in Dublin at the time meant it was hard to really stand out. I don’t know. But also, we broke up right after we had made a bit of a breakthrough with Hot Press – song of the month – finalists in the national band of the year, etc. In hindsight that wasn’t a clever move!

++ What about gigs? Did you play many? What were your favourites?

We played a lot of gigs, mostly in Dublin. We seemed to revolve between three venues in particular – The Baggot Inn, The Underground and The Earl Grattan. But we played everywhere we could. I loved the residencies we had in those venues. But there were two gigs that really stand out in my memory – both in Dublin City University (DCU).
The first was RAG week when basically lots of events are planned and all the students party for the week. We were due to play at lunchtime, open air, outside the canteen. We set up and started and all the cool students were standing around and there was a bit of toe tapping going on. And then it started to snow. And my girlfriend and manager (now my wife) and a friend of ours started to dance. And then a few others joined them…and the snow came down heavier. More and more people started dancing and the snow fell down and the buzz grew and eventually they had to stop the gig ’cause it was getting dangerous with the snow and none of the audience, which had grown considerably by now, wanted it to stop.

The second was in a lecture theatre the night DCU was granted university status. We came on and I strummed the first chord and the place erupted. That was a pretty special gig.

++ Were there any bad gigs? Or any fun anecdotes you could share?

Some student threw sandwiches at us in another college one time ‘cause we wouldn’t play Bohemian Rhapsody! Our roadie threw them straight back. It could have got interesting but instead it was very civilised (it was a teacher training college).
There was one 24 hour period that sums up the highs and lows in an interesting way: we played in Sir Henry’s in Cork as part of the Hot Press Band of the Year gig. It was really cool to play in such a well known venue outside of Dublin and we had a ball – partying afterwards, etc. I don’t remember getting to bed or even where we stayed but I do know that very early the next morning I flew back to Dublin and got a taxi directly from the airport to sit my college exams. And when I got there the exam hall was empty – I was in the wrong place! I made it to the exam eventually but don’t think I did terribly well!!

++ Did you get much attention from the music press or the radio?

As I said, Hot Press were on to us and we were interviewed in one of the national Sunday papers and had some other bits and pieces in the press. We were played on national radio a little bit.
Actually, you’ve just reminded me, ‘So Happy’ was played on the radio recently – the national station was having some vinyl slot on one of the talk programmes and my wife was a guest with that Danceline record under her arm! And a local radio station on Dublin’s northside interviewed me a while back – the subject of that conversation was my playwrighting but they also played ‘So Happy’ and two other songs of mine (‘Eternity’ and ‘Kids Can Crawl’).

++ When and why did you split? What did you do afterwards? Did you continue making music?

We split in 1989 I think. I’m not quite sure of the exact date – probably at the end of the summer of 1989. Just after we were beginning to get attention!

I recall this row erupting out of nowhere and suddenly the band was no more. Basically Anto was unhappy. There was a lot going on in his life but at the time I didn’t understand it. To be honest I think I was shocked or traumatised or something. I stopped writing songs for a few years. Well, except for one children’s song I wrote for a pantomime (which starred the girls who went on to form the girl band B*Witched – they were very young at the time but really liked the song and asked me all about it a few times – it was called ‘Two Friends’).

I was having a pint with Anto recently and we got talking about the split and it turns out that there was a lot of stuff going on for him at the time that I wasn’t aware of – personal stuff – and it came to the surface and was the chief cause of the band splitting. But that’s life. Our recent chat was very therapeutic. We’re recording music together again and it’s great.

++ And today, what are you up to? Are you all still in touch? Speaking of which, I found a Soundcloud for Anto Healy’s project Cabin, is that the same Anto?

I am writing songs and am recording with Anto again. He has a recording studio and is an excellent musician. I am also writing plays and had a short play tour nationally last year. I’ve been mentored by Fishamble Theatre Company which is Ireland’s new playwrighting company. Through my playwrighting I have been approached by one or two film directors and am currently writing a feature film with a really talented director/actor TJ O’Grady Peyton. I am also working on a short film adaptation of my play Fairview’s Finest Dancer with director Keith Farrell. Another short screenplay of mine is due to be produced this coming winter in Dublin. So creatively I’m busy and happy.
Yes that Soundcloud Cabin link is indeed by the same Anto Healy!
And yes I still see Brian as well – in fact I was just out with him tonight for a pint. We were trying to get tickets fro the All-Ireland Football Final this Sunday (go on the Dubs!!). Brian got one, I didn’t!

++ Aside from music, any other hobbies you have?

Aside from all the creative stuff I love traveling with my family (back to Vietnam for the sixth or seventh time next summer), I’ve walked across Ireland with my dad and other members of the wider family, and I follow the Dubs (Gaelic football and hurling)!

++ Looking back in time, what would you say was the highlight of being in So She Said?

Filling dancefloors.
Sitting back the first time we recorded in a studio (which happened to be ‘So Happy’) and thinking “Wow”.
Sitting back listening to ‘At Home in June’ and thinking “Wow”.

++ Are you still based in Dublin? Has it changed much since then? What would you recommend doing, seeing, eating, drinking, if one was to visit your city?

Yes I’m still in Dublin. I live in Fairview which is only 2km from the city centre. I love living here. It is unrecognisably more cosmopolitan than when I was growing up on Cedarwood Road. One example that comes to mind when speaking about the band is this: we used to rehearse in Temple Bar Studios and one night I remember going to a quiet little pub around the corner with Anto and Brian after rehearsal to watch a football match. Nowadays Temple Bar Studios is like some sort of music Mecca and the little pub around the corner is the Temple Bar and packed every opening hour with tourists.
But despite that anecdote it is a great place to visit. Things to do: walk the hill of Howth, drink Guinness in a real drinker’s pub (not a tourist trap), sit in the back room of The Palace Bar on Fleet Street, go for a hike in the Dublin Mountains, go for drinks, food, music in the Camden Street area, go to a play in the Gate Theatre. And give me a shout and I’ll guide you though any or all of the above!

++ Thanks again, anything else you’d like to add?

Pleasure talking to you Roque. I will send you a link to ‘Come And Go’ very shortly – we’re just mixing it at the moment. More info can be found at www.mentalmagpie.com and on Twitter @OSuilleabhainP

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Listen
So She Said – So Happy

Thanks so much to Lyndon Morgans for the interview and Jon Clay for getting me in touch with him! I wrote about Sad Among Strangers a long time ago on the blog after buying their “Taking Off the Breaks” 7″ which I thought was fantastic. Of course, as it is the case with many bands from the period, there was little information on the web about them and I wanted to know more. So I thank this opportunity to learn their story and their music. Hope you like it too!

++ Hi Lyndon! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! How are you? What are you up to these days? Still making music?

Sad Among Strangers spilt up in the fall of 1987 and then I concentrated on the theatre for about eight years, winning the Verity Bargate playwriting award in the early 90s. I formed the Jellymoulds around 1996 (featuring two ex-members of Sad Among Strangers, Karl Woodward and Malcolm Phillips), we made one album “Zen Jukebox”, then we launched Songdog in 2000 (Karl Woodward stayed on, another ex-Sad Among Strangers member, Robert Lesniewski, joined for just the first album. We’ve now made seven albums and Malcolm Phillips came back to play on the latest one but is now gone again. I regard Sad Among Strangers and Jellymoulds as the aperitifs, with Songdog very much the main course. The music we play now is very much how I’d like to have done it then but when Sad Among Strangers formed in the fall of 1978 it was very much ‘play punk or else’ as someone once scrawled across an early gig poster of ours …….

++ I wrote about Sad Among Strangers after I found the “Taking Off the Breaks” 7″ and looked for information on the web. I couldn’t find much. So why don’t we start from there, with that brilliant song. What’s the story behind it? What is it about?

The Sad Among Strangers thing seemed to fall into two distinct periods, firstly the fall of ’78 until spring of 82 and then from the spring of ’82 to the fall of 87. “Taking Off The Brakes” I suppose was the musical highlight of part two. Arista paid for some demos in 1985 and it was recorded as part of those sessions with Steve James producing. After Arista passed on us Freddie Cannon replaced the original drum part with the one that ended up on the record that came out on Broken Hill and claimed the producer’s credit. I guess the song’s about a guy trying to overcome his reserve and telling a girl how he feels about her. I remember still trying to finish the lyrics as we were in the studio and just about to record the vocal.

++ On the B side there was the song “I, Salamander”, which  is a bit darker, less poppy. I wonder what sort of style of music you liked best? And what were your influences at the time?

Freddie booked us into the old Pye Studios at Marble Arch to overdub the drums on “Taking Off The Brakes” but gave us carte blanche to put whatever we liked on the B-side, so we chose “I,
Salamander” and produced it ourselves. I haven’t heard either track in decades so I can’t comment on which I prefer!

++ Let’s go back in time for a bit, was Sad Among Strangers your first band? Had you been involved with other bands too? I know you were on Songdog after being in Sad Among Strangers, how different were these two bands?

When I was a teenager in Wales I’d played in a couple of local bands but we did only covers — wonderful years, though! When we came up to London in the early summer of 1976 I started writing the songs that would become Sad Among Strangers’s early repertoire and I’ve played only my own material ever since, via Jellymoulds and Songdog. There’s a big difference in approach between the Sads and Songdog, the former’s first period was super-fast tempos, angular guitar riffs and lyrics gleaned from my reading bawled out like newspaper headlines. Songdog is acoustic-based with often glacial-paced tempos, a lot rootsier and the lyrics much, much more considered! But to me, I can quite clearly identify a ‘through line’, a thread running right through the songwriter’s persona in both bands. In fact the very first line of the very first track on the very first Songdog album I’d lifted from an old Sads track, I meant it as a kind of statement-of intent and I’ve often re-used bits and pieces from Sads’ stuff over the years — – snatches of lyric, a chord sequence or whatever.

++ What are your first musical memories by the way? What sort of music did you grow up listening to? And what was your first instrument? You were based in Wales, right? Whereabouts? And how was it growing up there? Were there any good bands in town?

I grew up in a place in the South Wales valleys called Blackwood: the Manic Street Preachers came from there too but nothing great or genuinely important so far (but for Songdog!). I was a music fanatic from the age of about ten — – the Beatles, Stones, Kinks, Dylan. The stuff that had the most bearing on what I was to do later was mid-60s folk-rock and the baroque-pop stuff of ‘66-’69 combined with the early 70s singer-songwriter boom, and that’s what I would’ve loved to play from the time I first started writing songs, but in London in 1977 and the years immediately following anything that wasn’t ‘punk’ or new wave was anathema. You just wouldn’t have got any gigs whispering away behind an acoustic guitar! My father bought me a guitar for Christmas when I was twelve and right from the very start I wanted to use it as something to sing to and write my own songs on. After I’d learned the basics I had limited interest in working out other people’s stuff. I wish I’d learned piano too.

++ I couldn’t find the band lineup for Sad Among Strangers on the web. So who were Sad Among Strangers and how did you all meet? What’s the story of the band’s name? Your first release was in 1980 on the Brave Tales label. Who were behind this label? This record has three songs, “Sparks Fly Upwards”, “A Better View of Baxter” and “The Gongs”. I really like the opening track the best, and I was wondering how was your experience working with Ian Dinwoodie as the producer, what did he add to the sound of the band? And how was the creative process for Sad Among Strangers? Where did you usually rehearse?

The first line-up was myself on guitar and vocals, Karl Woodward on guitar, Robert Lesniewski on keyboards, Malcolm Phillips on bass and Steve Prescott on drums. Me, Karl and Sig (Robert Lesniewski) came up from Wales together with the express intention of forming a band and met Mal and Steve after they answered an ad we’d placed in Melody Maker for a rhythm section. Later on Mal left and was replaced by Ruari Macfarlane and we headed in a pretty different direction musically. The name came from James Joyce’s novel “Ulysses” which I was reading at the time — — “Who loved you, Stephen, when you were sad among the strangers?”. We used to rehearse at Woodwharf Studios in Greenwich, Dire Straits would be in one room and Kate Bush and her band in another. Another time we were in a place near London Bridge when Queen’s and Public Image’s roadies ganged up together to see off a bunch of skinheads causing trouble outside! We met Ian Dinwoodie when he caught us at a gig in west London in 1979, he worked in EMI’s post-room at the time and he steered us through to the spring of ’82, producing our first three singles and managing us too. We did that first three-track single in a posh 24-track studio in Wimbledon, south London: Cliff Richard had booked it for daytime use and once he’d left mid- evening we’d creep in and do our stuff through the night — – the house engineer was a friend of Mal’s, had an amazing porn collection. Brave Tales was our own label. Ian gave a sense of purpose and direction to all the chaos, I’d say he was vital to us throughout those early years, he booked all the gigs, designed the sleeves, the lot, we did four shows a week, every week for years and years, in the process conquering all the venues you needed to play in those times, from the Marquee down, we did many shows there.

++ Your next release was the “Here Come the Caesars” 7″. The B side, “I Know Nothing of the Jungle” was covered by the band Jellymoulds in 1997. What do you think of it? “My Kind of Loser” was your next release. I notice here that the record was being published by Cherry Red Music. What was the deal you had with them? Why didn’t they just release the record on their label? Was there any interest from other labels? So there were 4 releases, four singles, but no album. How come? Are there any unreleased Sad Among Strangers songs? And from all those songs from your repertoire which one would you say was your favourite and why?

With Jellymoulds we re-did “I Know Nothing of the Jungle” out of nostalgia for the old days, I suppose. I prefer the later version just because it’s better played — – the Sads had all the passion and energy in the world but we didn’t pay too much attention to the nuts and bolts, the musicality of the thing — – we could do a six-minute track in about 2:45. By the time Jellymoulds happened we were better musicians, that’s all. As regards “Here Come The Caesars” and “My Kind of Loser” I remember Iain McNay of Cherry Red coming backstage at a gig at the Rock Garden and offering us a deal but I honestly don’t remember what happened, I think they ended up with the publishing, that would’ve been Ian’s department. We were so cocky that another time we turned down the chance to do an album on the Virgin barge because we didn’t like the trousers the guy offering us the deal was wearing: we also said no to a tour opening for XTC, I remember. We were doing so well as a live band I think we figured we could just pick and choose when we felt good and ready. Years later a guy from Virgin told us that we eventually had the reputation as the band that didn’t want a deal! Not true! There’s a whole pile of unreleased material. And many of the gigs were taped too, though that’s all very lo-fi stuff, purely of historical interest only. I liked quite a few of the songs but didn’t always like the way we did them: as I say, we didn’t really do musical finesse and as a songwriter it sometimes felt like watching your babies get mangled in a car-wreck. A lot of the ideas from that era I only got to re-do properly with Songdog.

++ Someone commented on my blog saying that by the mid 80s you decided to go commercial. Is that true?

By the time Mal left and Ruari joined in mid-1982 the New Wave thing was over and the fucking synthesiser was mainstream music’s favoured instrument of torture, and in the course of those following years although we had some fantastic times we lost our way musically. Trousers got baggier, hair bigger, it felt like we were just following whatever the latest trend was, a kind of pop-funk thing that certainly wasn’t what we were about in our hearts. Karl wanted to leave years before we called it a day and I was enormously relieved when we finally did. So I can understand why some people preferred the earlier years: so did I. ‘Going commercial’ is a quaint way to put it but I know what the guy means. It was partly just the times, even my greatest heroes did their weakest work in that era. I left music alone until songwriting came back in in the 90s and the rediscovery of the likes of Leonard Cohen and Nick Drake made acoustic music viable again for the first time in twenty years. I was just a victim of bad timing, I think!

++ Something that I could find on the web was that you were support of A-Ha on a European tour of theirs in 1981. How was that experience? How was your relationship with them? Which cities did you play? Which were your favourites? Any fun anecdotes you could share?

We did the A-Ha European tour of late 1986, they were huge then and the tour was quite an experience, they were doing massive venues and the audiences loved us — — though I’m betting they’d have loved whoever was up there! We did Lyon, four nights in Paris, Bordeaux, Toulouse, Dusseldorf, Munich, Mannheim, Nuremberg, Hamburg, Brussels, Rotterdam and Copenhagen — – I don’t know if I’ve missed any, it lasted about a month? We got on well with them and in fact a few years ago Songdog went back out opening for Morten Harket on one of his tours, our manager rang his people, he remembered the ’86 tour and invited us on. We had many, many memorable times on that tour but I suppose the incident I remember the clearest was after we’d come offstage in Nuremburg (?) I swallowed a few pills some guy’d offered me and then downed a bottle of wine and collapsed, got locked in a toilet somewhere and had to be ambulanced to hospital to have my stomach pumped. Happy days, eh? I remember being chuffed to have done a venue in Munich that the Beatles had played and that Paul Simon was to be the next attraction at our Paris venue. The trouble was that when the tour was over we found it just so demoralising to have to return to the London pub circuit and we limped on through most of 1987 becoming less and less committed to what we were doing. We should’ve packed in about three years before we did, but then, of course, we’d have missed that A-Ha tour! My favourite shows were the Paris ones, once we’d left the venue we’d be up in Montmartre drinking half the night away because we didn’t have to set out for the next city, we had four nights to do at the same place.

++ And in general, which are the gigs you remember most fondly and why? Did you get much attention from the music press and radio?

Gigs-wise I loved the early years best, when we were chalking up venues we’d read of back in Wales and knew you had to do if you were to be counted as any good. In the very earliest days we also had a residency at a place on Clapham High Street — – the Two Brewers — – that lasted over two years and we had some fantastic times there, we built up a hell of a following due to that place. John Peel used to play us but that was really it, radio-wise. The music press mostly slagged the shit out of us! When we began to get good press for Songdog I thought someone had made a mistake somewhere, I was so used to getting hatchet-jobs done on us.

++ When and why did you call it a day? What did you do afterwards? And whereabouts in the UK are you these days? Aside from music, what other hobbies do you have? One last question, what would you say was the biggest highlight of the band? Anything else you’d like to add?

As I said, the end was overdue and merciful. The drummer announced his imminent departure and we used that as an opportunity to not to have to carry on: there was no announcement of our splitting up, we just didn’t bother looking for a replacement, didn’t book any more rehearsals, etc. I then got involved in playwriting for years until the musical tide turned back to songwriting in the mid-90s. Thank God for it, I finally had a chance to make the musical statement I was born to make, but Sad Among Strangers was a hell of an apprenticeship, I have to admit that. I’m still based in London — – though I have a place in Wales too — – and I focus completely on my work with Songdog, I have to keep writing and recording until I can’t any longer, I couldn’t live at all if I had to just give all this up and I’ve had so many great things happen with Songdog, so many experiences I couldn’t have got with the old band, but Christ, still, with Sad Among Strangers, we had some adventures, didn’t we!

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Listen
Sad Among Strangers – Taking Off the Breaks

Thanks so much again to Andrea Croft for this interview! I wrote about Catherine Wheel many many years ago on the blog, I think it was one of the first bands I featured. Then I got in touch with Andrea and we did an interview about her previous band, The Honeys, which no one should miss. Now it is time to talk about Catherine Wheel, a brilliant Sydney band that released 2 7″s and one CD EP in the 90s. Try to track these releases down, they are fantastic!

++ Thanks again Andrea for being up to answer a bunch of my questions, this time about Catherine Wheel! I must say I know much less about Catherine Wheel than The Honeys even though I do have the three releases. I do know that the band started after The Honeys split. But how did the band start as such? You already knew Grant from The Honeys of course, but what about Brett and Biff? Had they been in other bands?

Grant and Brett were both members of the Honeys and Biff came on board as lead guitarist. Biff had played before yes, not sure which bands though..

++ Was there a different sort of music direction in Catherine Wheel compared to The Honeys? Or would you say it was more of a continuation of the sound of The Honeys?

It was more pop based than the country rock sound of the Honeys. Bruce’s songwriting style gave the Honeys its country flavour.

++ And you were still in Sydney, right? Still living at the house in Chippendale? Where did you rehearse?

We were still in Sydney, yes. We’d moved on to different homes by then and mainly rehearsed in a rehearsal studio. Too loud for lounge rooms!

++ Was the creative process similar to the one in The Honeys or not?

A bit different in as much as Grant and I would present songs that were pretty complete, lyrically and melodically. Of course suggestions and tweaks were made during rehearsals and we’d all flesh out the song until it became something we all liked.

++ What’s the story behind the name of the band? And were you aware of the UK band with the same name?

We just came up with it among other suggestions and only learned of the UK band after our first release from memory. Didn’t really affect us in Australia but would of course have limited UK releases of our songs.

++ Your first release was the “Blue Avenue” 7″ and it was released by Big Wheel Records. Who were Big Wheel Records? Was it your own label perhaps?

Wow, testing my memory now…I think they may have been affiliated with the publishing company Grant was signed to at the time. Don’t quote me on that though and interestingly, there’s a label of the same name these days that seem to specialise in Hip Hop so there you go! Thanks google.

++ Something that surprised me was that “Blue Avenue” had a saxophone in it. How was the recording process for this single? Any anecdotes you could share?

Yep, I dabbled in a bit of saxophone for awhile there. Not the most complex sax line but something different. The only anecdote I can share which is more of a suggestion…Don’t ever try to play the saxophone or harmonica for that matter after it’s been sitting in full sun at a lunch time Uni gig. Unless of course, the sound you’re going for is a strangled goose. In mating season…not a comforting sound.

++ I love the song “Last Explanation” and was wondering if you could tell me the story behind it?

Glad you like it. I wrote that one on a road trip, bumping along on a gravel road in the back of the panel van. I had been listening to Falling Joys on my Sony Walkman (remember those? Back in the Stone Age!) and felt inspired to write it. It may or may not have been about someone I knew, ok it was!

++ And where was the back cover photo of the band taken?

Tony Mott took that pic, again testing my memory but I’m pretty sure that one was taken outside a Church as the door was cool.

++ Speaking of photos, I always wondered who is the kid on the front cover of your second single “Almost Blind”?

Well I had a bit of a thing for op shops, charity stores and I still do. I found a bunch of old photos at one of these shops one day and a few featured on the inside sleeve of the Honeys Goddess album. I thought it a bit sad and unkind that these images of people were discarded like that and I was drawn to buy them as they were so old and black and white. Very stark images therefore.  I wondered who these people were. The cover of Almost Blind may have been one of those photos.

++ On this single you there are thank yous on the back, to Look at Her, Falling Joys, Wedding Parties Anything, Joe Breen at Sound Level Drums and the men from Waterfront. I know you had a good relationship with The Falling Joys, another fantastic band, and I suppose you got some help from the Waterfront label for this release? But who were the other people? bands?

++ Something that struck me as well is that the songs are credited to you and also to Warner Chappell. How did that happen?

Well Grant was signed to that publishing company for a while there so they are credited as such. 

++ “Self-Portraits” was your last release, a 5 song CD EP. From what I gather it was released in 1992. I thought you split in 1991. Am I right with the dates? And it was released by Shock, quite an important label in Australia. How did that happen?

Don’t ask me, time lines aren’t my forte! Sorry, been a long time since. Some of our mates in other bands were affiliated with Shock so we went with them too.

++ On this CD EP there were some changes in the band, Matt Handley replaced Biff Smith. How did you recruit Matt? Had he been in other bands?

Let me begin by saying that both Biff and Matt were and are extraordinary guitarists. Terrific vocalists too. Matt was already very gifted on the guitar so he had had some experience, yes.

++ This EP has a fab song, “Reach”. I wonder what inspired you to write this song?

Well thank you, as a non prolific song writer, this one came to me in a rush. Chords, lyrics, the lot. I never really worked hard at songwriting and good songwriters will tell you it is work. And discipline. Something I lack, but with this song, I got lucky and had that inspiration from nowhere and there it was. To be honest, it was mostly about me and challenging myself to ‘Reach’. I loved singing it live, it’s different when you sing songs you’ve penned yourself. Like you’re sharing something personal. It’s nice.

++ There were only two songs as far as I know where Grant sings, “Blackest World” and “Blue Avenue”. Why did he sing so little?

think Grant would agree when I say he was happy playing and singing harmonies and the odd song…personally though, I loved it when I could take a breather and watch him sing. He’s so energetic onstage and Blackest World was always a big hit live. People would yell it out after our set as a desired encore. It’s such a great song and he writes amazingly well constructed melodies. Gone Away is one such song, it’s just perfect!

++ How come there were no more releases, no album?

We just broke up, it was a great thing for a while, then it wasn’t. That’s bands for you..

++ Are there any unreleased songs? Any other recordings? Perhaps demo tapes?

Not that I’m aware of. Perhaps Grant has some bootlegs hidden away?

++ And how were gigs for Catherine Wheel? Did you play many? Someone commented on my blog about a gig at Lansdowne Hotel. Do you remember it?

The gigs were so much fun. We played quite a lot actually. We were lucky enough to score a few tours including a Hoodoo Gurus one and a Crowded House tour in Queensland. The Hoodoos guys were lovely and the boys from Crowded House? Well, we didn’t get to meet them but still, a great opportunity to play in front of a big crowd. The Landsdowne, ahhh I loved that venue. Both Catherine Wheel and Honeys played there several times. It’s probably a car park now, bring back the smelly, beer soaked carpet pubs!

++ Did Catherine Wheel get more or less attention from the music press and radio compared to The Honeys?

I think a bit more music press and about the same support from radio. Radio supported and played new bands back then, harder now to be selected on a playlist.

++ How come there were no promo videos of Catherine Wheel songs?

It wasn’t something that was a focus for us at the time. Playing was and that’s what we did.

++ When and why did the band split?

++ Have there ever been a reunion gig? Or have you ever considered it?

Never has been, and I never say never! Would be cool.

++ When it comes to Catherine Wheel, what were your highlights being part of the band?

Playing guitar was fun, I could’ve done it in the Honeys more but we had it covered so playing an instrument was fun. Also, the Almost Blind single. I was really proud of that. I thought then and still do that it’s a great pop song. Touring in big vans with boys I loved, that was a highlight. Laughing and listening to dodgy mixed tapes, yes tapes were still a thing wayyyy back then in the Pliocene. Driving to the next gig and singing along to very dodgy music, that stuff is what I think of when I’m asked about highlights. Happy faces in a crowd singing along, that’s a highlight for sure.

++ And if you were to choose your favourite Catherine Wheel song, which one would it be and why?

I’d choose Reach simply because I wrote it and I was going through some growing up stuff at the time. Close second, and I mean super close is Almost Blind because it’s chorus is killer. Try not to sing along! I dare ya!

++ One last question, you told me that Perth has a very limited music scene these days, and that’s a shame. But I would love to visit one day still, wonder what would you suggest one should check out in your city? What are the sights not to be missed? Or any traditional food from town?

There are some good venues still Roque, the Rosemount Hotel hosts many live bands and is really supportive of local music. Little Creatures pub in Fremantle have a few bands on as does several other venues in Fremantle. Northbridge is an inner city suburb in Perth and some live music pops up there too. Food wise? I have several suggestions that I shall PM you when you’re in town. 

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Listen
Catherine Wheel – Last Explanation

Thanks so much to Masahiro, Darelle and Wendy for this brilliant interview! I interviewed Masahiro a week ago about his solo-project Tricycle Popstar and by doing so I learned that he was also involved in the mysterious The Love Mushrooms who released just one CD-single with the label A Trumpet Trumpet Records in 1992. That single has 3 poptastic songs, that sound timeless today, with jingle jangly guitars and catchy female vocals. A perfect pop record to my ears! The band didn’t last long. They played live once. And their story was quite forgotten. But it is now time for all of us to rediscover this gem of a record!

++ Hi again! How are you? Thanks a lot for being up for a second interview. How is the Australian winter treating you? Do you have any plans for going back to Japan soon?

Masa: Melbourne winter is not that cold compared to my hometown. No plans to go back to Japan at the moment. But I’d love to go anytime:)

Darelle: I live in Hobart, Tasmania – it is a little cold, but I like that!

Wendy: I live in Melbourne – it is wet and cold but I like the contrast to our dry hot summers. I hope to go back to Japan in two years with my family for my 50th birthday – it has been 20 years!!

++ We talked last time about Tricycle Popstar, your solo project. But just before you had started Tricycle Popstar and the label Behaviour Savior you were for a short time in the band The Love Mushrooms, is that right? How long did The Love Mushrooms really last as a band?

Masa: About half a year ~ one year??

++ And why the name The Love Mushrooms?

Masa: I like those 60’s girl groups like The Supremes, The Ronettes, The Shangri Las etc.  The image of the name came from there.
Also The Love Mushrooms sounds erotic.

++ This is a silly question perhaps, but as you wrote songs about food, I wonder are there any particular mushrooms you really like?

Masa: I like any mushrooms. My favourite are Matsutake, Maitake.

Darelle: I am the same as you, Masa. I could eat mushrooms everyday – especially morels

++ So you had been living in Akita and then moved to Tokyo, but before moving to Tokyo you used to visit the city quite a bit. How often did you go? And how did you meet Akiko Masuda who would prove important to get your music out there?

Masa: In my Akita days, I haven’t been there, even once. After graduate high school went to Tokyo. That was my first time.

When I was a high school student, I had a message on a music magazine classified section: “Looking for friends who likes The Housemartins, The Flipper’s Guitar”. And one girl sends me a letter. Her name is Akiko Masuda. She was living near Tokyo and she teach me a lots of news of Tokyo indie scene, UK & US indie scene, and sends me a lots of music video recordings from TV program (*Tokyo area has lot more TV station and they had lots of interesting music programs too. Akita had just 2 local broadcasting stations back then). When I came to Tokyo I often meet her. She was doing a club event called ”Smiths Night” back then. (The event was playing only The Smiths records all night long!)

And through her, I was into those UK & US & Tokyo indie scene more. I was young, and I thought “I want to release my music out there!”

++ How were those Smiths nights by the way? What was the crowd favourite Smiths song when everyone went crazy on the dancefloor? And what about yours?

Masa: My favourite is “This charming man”

There are many hard core The Smiths fans there.
Any songs could those people went crazy on the dancefloor.

Darelle: I love “Cemetery Gates”.

Wendy: I met my husband by quoting from the song ASK and him replying with the next line..so that is certainly one of my favourites but I have also always liked Girlfriend in a Coma

++ That first demo you handed to Keisuke Hatsuda from Motorway Records, what did it contain? And how come he didn’t sign you?

Masa: He hadn’t started Motorway Records yet then, He was the guitarist of a band called “Budgie Jacket”. He is a great man and had great knowledge of those UK & US indie scene, it amazed me. And I can’t remember what songs were in the demo tape.

++ The demo was to end in Masashi Naka who ran A Trumpet Trumpet Records and he was going to offer you a release. But he wanted sort of a girl band sound, why was that? What reasons did he give you and did you feel comfortable about it?

Masa: I always do it on my own. And I know my vocals  aren’t that good. So I thought that was good idea. He’s got a sense. He knows what kind of music appeal to people.

++ And this is the point when The Love Mushrooms really form, when you get Wendy and Darelle in the band. How did you meet them and you convince them to join?

Masa: Wendy & Darelle, whom I also met through Mark. (also from Tasmania too). And I just ask them Like “Let’s do it! It’s gonna be fun!!”

Darelle: I had met Mark when I was 15 years old, so we already knew each other when I moved to work in Tokyo in 1992, and he introduced me to Masa. Wendy and I were both from Hobart, but had not met until we worked together in Japan. Wendy, Mark, Masa and I spent a lot of time hanging out together and when Masa asked us to sing we just thought it was something fun to do!

Wendy:  I knew Mark vaguely from Hobart as we worked at the same hotel on the front desk. The rest is history as Darelle tells it. We were all very close and spent a lot of fun times together.

++ The first incarnation of The Love Mushrooms was you and your friend Hiroshi Kudo back in Akita, is that right? Are the recordings from the split tapes with Tricycle Popstar, Dynamic Pops for the 90’s Vol 1 and 2, and The Best Of, from this period? Where do you usually record with him?

Masa: Me & Hiroshi were playing together my original songs in Akita back then, and some of songs were used as Love Mushrooms songs. I just changed the lyrics. And we recorded at my apartment usually.

Darelle: We would all squash in at your apartment – it was so tiny! Fun times!

++ Were Hiroshi, Wendy and Darelle into indiepop? Which of bands would you say inspired the music of The Love Mushrooms?

Masa: Hiroshi wasn’t much interested in indie music, But he likes music in general. Wendy & Darelle were big music fans. Wendy was into indie music and I know she collected some 7”s & records. Darelle loved 4AD type of music. What inspired the music of The Love Mushrooms?, mmm… maybe Talulah Gosh, Hevenly, Nelories.

Darelle: I loved anything on 4AD at that time, especially Cocteau Twins, Lush – still do! I was really into The Smiths and The Cure, New Order. I have loved all types of music for my whole life. I find it a great escape from the real world.

Wendy: I enjoyed alternative music from a young age. The Cure, Blur, Ride, The Smiths, The Go-Betweens….a lot of their music is still so relevant today. When I was in Tokyo, discovered the Sarah Label and collected quite a few singles – The Sea Urchins, Another Sunny Day… I can hear that kind of music in a lot of Melbourne bands nowadays.

++ So in 1992 A Trumpet Trumpet was to release your one and only release, the 3″ CD single “Wait and See What Happens”. It included 3 songs, all sounding gloriously, I can’t believe I’ve only discovered the songs as of late. I was wondering if you could tell me just in a few lines what each song is about, “Funny Sunny Day”, “You Make Me Feel” and “Satisfy Me”.

Masa: “Funny Sunny Day” – I think this song is “The Love mushrooms”. “You Make Me Feel” – My favourite track on this EP. “Satisfy Me” – I wanted to add more sounds on this track actually.

Darelle: I remember “Funny Sunny Day” was about a day Wendy and I spent in Tokyo with a friend from Canada. “You make me feel” and “Satisfy Me” – I love both of those songs. Masa always writes great melodies. He was the brains behind the whole band. I just happened to sing as I was there. Wendy and I would contribute to the lyrics. It was a lot of fun.

Wendy:  Yep I agree with Darelle, thanks D!

++ And how did the creative process work for The Love Mushrooms? Was it the same as for Tricycle Popstar?

Masa: Yes, It was quite same. Sometimes, I need to have harmony vocal tracks, I requested them. Darelle was great on those harmony vocals, She created those harmony parts by herself.

Darelle: Oh Masa! I really enjoyed doing the harmonies. I have always loved to sing, even though I am not that great. It was the most exciting, fun time. For me, it was about friendship. And an awakening to the big world.

Wendy: Yes, Darelle was amazing…I never really had the confidence and am not a great singer, so was more comfortable being in the background….but it was such a great experience recording and practising. We really had fun and that was the main thing, and we had such strong ties then.

Masa: I think Wendy’s vocal is very cute!! I remember we were very very nervous at the recording studio.

++ This single has a girl photograph in the cover? Who is she? Is she Wendy or Darelle? I hear this covert art also was featured on a magazine at the time?

Masa: A girl photograph in the cover isn’t Wendy or Darelle. The designer took the photo from somewhere. Our CD jacket was on i-D Japan magazine, that was thrilled me.

Darelle: I loved the cover!

Wendy:  Me too!

++ What do you remember about recording these songs? Any anecdotes you could share?

Masa: Mr. Naka paid for recordings. We recorded in a small recording studio. We recorded 3 songs in one day.

I didn’t bring keyboard with me on the recording day (I thought they have some keys in the studio), but there was none, only a small toy keyboard was there. So I played all key parts with the toy keyboard.

Soon after that recordings (maybe not soon, I can’t remember), the songs were mixed by Tatsuhiko Mori at his studio, he is a professional mix engineer / programmer, he collaborated with many major & indie artists.
[He also owned record label called “Hammer Label” that label reissued albums of Danish band called ”Gangway”, I love Gangway very much and Mr. Mori let me hear a song of them before releasing.]

I was there when Mr.Mori did the final mix on the songs. That was amazing!! Especially “You Make Me Feel”. After his magical treatment, that song turn into a great pop song!!
Also he changed drum tracks into better drum sounds (programmed by him) on “Funny Sunny Day” & “You Make Me Feel”.

Listening music in a studio environment & see the professionals work in real time was really a great experience for me.

Darelle: I remember being very nervous, as I am really not the best singer! I love singing but in the shower only! So it was so nerve wracking. It was a really fun day. Mori did a great job with the mixing and especially my vocals on “You make me feel”. I remember loving the result.

Masa: Yeah, That was a “WOW” experience.

Darelle: You wrote a really great song, Masa!

Wendy:  As I wrote before, it was a great day and an experience I will never have again….and I love Masa’s music…I often play his music to my friends because I am very proud of how much he has achieved as a solo artist.

++ You did mention that The Love Mushrooms appeared on the Auto Guide’s First Triangle compilation. That was the only compilation appearance of the band?

Masa: I remember!
The Love Mushrooms appeared on The Birth Of The Untruth ‎(Cassette tape – Compilation) tt003 1992 from A Trumpet Trumpet Records, before releasing CD ep. Those recordings are from my 8 track recorder. There are 2 songs on it. Love Is Just A Game & Satisfy Me.

Love Is Just A Game is a cute song. There were 3 of us on vocals. (Masa, Wendy & Darelle) & Mark too (for a second).

Satisfy Me is more raw/lo-fi ish recording (can’t remember).

https://www.discogs.com/Various-The-Birth-Of-The-Untruth/release/8254949

++ And did the band get any reaction by the press or radio?

Masa: The Love Mushrooms were played on College Radio Chart show (FM). Few fanzines were interested in The Love Mushrooms/Tricycle Popstar. Some record stores made beautiful pop up displays for us.

However, The Love Mushrooms is kind of a secret / recording project, we didn’t appear in public / we didn’t play live on stage (only once). So actually people didn’t recognize us as musicians.

Darelle: I remember we were mentioned on TV once – that was a big thrill for me.

Masa: Oh, yeah.

++ You played just one gig with The Love Mushrooms, supporting Nelories and Venus Peter at Meiji University Campus. How was that experience? How did you get the support slot? And how did you like Venus Peter and Nelories?

Masa: I remember KAMATA TETSUJI (Dr) from Budgie Jacket asked me to do the support slot at Meiji University Campus Music Festival… I like Venus Peter and Nelories, I have their CDs. However, we didn’t talk much at the backstage. We are not familiar with those scene.

KAMATA TETSUJI (Dr), HIROSHI KUDO (Bass), and I think another Guitar player Mr.KATO from my hometown were helping to play at the gig.

However, that gig was terrible. We didn’t have much time to rehearse.

Darelle: I think the gig was terrible because I really was so nervous and had never sung in front of an audience before (except in a choir at school). Wendy and I were nervous as hell! It was awful! But I remember it with fondness.

Wendy:  Oh yes, SO nervous and I was sick so my voice sounded worse than normal – I am not a singer at all, so I think that it was really hard for me to stand up and perform.

++ After that gig did you decide not to play more gigs? It wasn’t for you?

Masa: No. It wasn’t for me. I prefered just making music, not play music on stage.

Darelle: My daughter Isobel plays and sings in a two piece. I actually went to see a gig last night, She doesn’t show any sign of nerves! Wish I could have had her confidence when we played all those years ago.

Masa: What’s your daughter’s band called? DO they have Soundcloud or anything??

Darelle: They are called “Bert Shirt”. I don’t think the have anything up on Soundcloud at the moment, but they are working on it. They are a two piece – Isobel sings and plays keys. They have written some great originals and the also did a cover the other night – Alvvays, “Archie, Marry Me”. It is such a sweet song.

Wendy: I am certainly not a performer and don’t feel at all comfortable up onstage, so was thankful we didn’t do any more.

++ I do wonder why did you stop The Love Mushrooms?

Masa: On the later days of my Tokyo era, Darelle went back to Tasmania, and I was planning to go to Australia. It was busy time. I think that’s why we released cassettes only around that time. Because we could make copies by ourselves. If we made CD or 7”, we have to sell them and keep the stock with us.

Darelle: That year in Tokyo was one of my best! It was great to have such wonderful friends.

++ Wendy and Darelle were from Tasmania. I wonder, have you ever been there? How did you like it? Do you know any good indiepop music from there?

Masa: YES. Few times. Tasmania is beautiful place. We spend time at Wendy’s parents house on New years eve long time ago. And had Wendy’s dad’s homemade rhubarb wine there, was very very nice!!

Darelle: Yes! His rhubarb wine is the best! I live in Tasmania now. It has become a really vibrant, artsy place, especially since the advent of MONA [https://mona.net.au] – an amazing museum/gallery that many travel to come and see.

++ And did Hiroshi, Wendy and Darelle continue making music afterwards or not? Do you know what they are up to?

Masa: I’m not sure what Hiroshi is doing now….

Darelle: I went back to Japan for 2 years in the early 2000’s with my (then) husband and 2 little girls. It really is the most beautiful place. We lived in Melbourne for some time, but I have returned to Hobart. I sing everyday – to myself! I am so passionate about music and how it makes you feel. I can put on one of my favorite songs and instantly my mood lifts.
I am thrilled my daughter finds such pleasure in her band.
I am now a nurse and work with the elderly. We are about to implement a program which involves providing our residents with ipods filled with music that they love. I am so passionate about this because I know how much music can evoke emotions and memories.

Masa: Oh, that’s great job, Darelle!! You should get a big speaker for them to dance!!

Darelle: That’s a great idea! I love dancing myself – it really lifts my mood!

Wendy:  No, no more music for me but I love seeing live bands and Melbourne is the best city to do that. There are gigs all over the town every night. I have lived here for almost 20 years (since I left Tokyo) and love it. I’m looking forward to visiting Japan when I turn 50 in a couple of years.

++ Looking back, what would you say was your favourite Love Mushroom song you made and why?

Masa: My favourite Love Mushroom song is “You make me feel”, because that song had a great professional treatment and turned out really great!!

Darelle: I love that song too! Masa wrote a great melody.

Wendy:  I liked Satisfy Me as it was a bit ‘grungy’ but also You Make Me Feel. Masa is very clever!!

++ Thanks again, I’m going to do my best to track this single, it is amazing how much it sounds to many popular Swedish girl-fronted indiepop bands from the early 2000s, I’d say you were ahead of your time! Is there anything else you’d like to add?

Masa: It was fun time for us too. Great memories.

Darelle: When I think back to that time I remember fun and being young! It really was great!

Wendy: I miss those days, but have great memories and even though we don’t see each other so much now, I believe we will always be friends and I am thankful for our time together there.

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Listen
The Love Mushrooms – Satisfy Me

Thanks so much to Andrea Croft for this interview! I wrote last week about The Honeys, the brilliant Perth/Sydney band from the late 80s, on the blog. Almost immediately my friend Paul from the band Rabbit’s Wedding got me in touch with Andrea and she was very kind to answer to all my questions!  The Honeys released 2 albums and two singles in two different periods, back in the 90s and then reuniting for a short time in 2007. If you haven’t heard them yet, please make yourself a favour and discover them with this great interview!

++ Hi Andrea! Thanks so much for taking your time to answer this interview. How are you doing? Where are you? In Sydney or Perth?

Thanks Roque, where are you situated? I’m good, living back in Perth where I was born. Been back around 23 years now.

++ Were you originally from Fremantle? How was it back then? Were there any other like-minded bands in town? Where did you usually hang out? Was there any good venues to check out bands?

I was originally from Trigg, a suburb north of Freo. The scene was pretty healthy back then but going to Sydney was necessary to progress as a band. There were very few bands I knew in Perth as I joined up with Bruce and Grant for a couple of rehearsals and then followed them to Sydney very shortly after. Sydney was where I met most band pals. The Fitzgerald was a great pub back then in Perth and supported original bands. The live scene here now is limited as not many venues host live music anymore which is a shame.

++ And how was growing up in Australia? What sort of music did you listen to? What was your first instrument and do you remember how did you get it?

Growing up in Australia I consider a blessing. Especially the weather in Perth and the beaches, it’s pretty easygoing here. Like a big country town compared to Sydney and Melbourne. I listened to Blondie, Pretenders, Kate Bush, Divinyls mostly. Bit of an obsession with strong female vocalists! I now love Lucinda Williams and have done for years.

My first instrument was a guitar, an Ovation acoustic, then I had a saxophone for which I took lessons. I was envious of my brother’s drum kit though and would have a good bash on that now and then. As both my Mum and Dad were singers, we had many instruments available as my Dad was a bit of a collector. My folks bought me both the above instruments, lucky kid.

++ Were you involved in any bands before being in The Honeys?

Before the Honeys I was in a cover band for a couple of years with a hideous name that shall remain a mystery! Despite the ridiculous name, I had a blast with those guys. Not surprisingly, we played lots of Pretenders, Blondie, Divinyls…also Hoodoo Gurus and other stuff. We even did a gig at a bikies do in the Perth hills one night. Can’t remember which gang but it was a pretty full on night thinking back on it now. Actually, we had a residency at a pub in Freo on Saturday nights and for some reason, we’d get heaps of bikies rocking up to that every week. They had a great time but eventually the pub cancelled us as the bikie lads were starting fights after the gigs and generally being naughty bikie boys.

++ How did The Honeys start as a band? How did you all know each other?

I answered an ad in the paper, called Bruce and went for an audition. We had a couple of jams, he went to Sydney and offered me the vocalist position and I bought a bus ticket and headed East a month shy of my 21st birthday. So basically I joined a band with two guys I barely knew but luckily Bruce and Grant were gentlemen as were all the fellows I lived with over there. I made some brilliant lasting friendships in Sydney so I’m thrilled I took the leap and left Perth.

++ What’s the story behind the name of the band?

I’m fairly certain Bruce came up with that. I didn’t particularly love it at first, thought it sounded like a girl band name but it fit after a while with the style of music we were playing.

++ Did you move to Sydney before or after signing to Waterfront Records? Had you been there before? How did you get there? Was it a road-trip altogether?

Bruce went first, not sure if Grant went at the same time, I caught a Greyhound bus. Took a few days to get there. Trying to sleep sitting up is not something I’d recommend but it felt like a huge adventure to me at the time. I’d never been to Sydney before and it was very exciting as I’d been living at home with my folks so this was a kind of coming of age thing for me. I was sooooo ready to leave Perth and home. So, perfect timing really.

There were subsequent road trips together when the band went on tour. We drove our Holden HQ Panel Van twice from Sydney to Perth and back again. Continuous driving by swapping drivers every few hours. Picture it, me with 5 blokes who are all eating burgers with unpleasant consequences that I shan’t reveal at this point all the way across at the height of summer, filthy hot and next to no sleep for anyone. But guess what, it was such a great experience. We were searched by the police twice too, they went through the trailer, the roof rack, the whole vehicle looking for drugs I suppose. They found nothing, we weren’t very rock and roll I’m afraid, not a single drug habit amongst us! We loved our beer though. Good times.

++ It must have been quite an experience, moving with the whole band to a new town. Did you all live together? How did you adapt to Sydney? Did you find many differences compared to Perth?

We did live together in a two storey terrace house in Chippendale. It had a shared yard and other band members lived next door so there were some fun times had there. Honestly the place was a wreck, leaking ceilings in winter, rising damp, dodgy balconies. But to me it was fantastic and it was Sydney! Most people I knew were living in places like that and they had so much charm. The pubs we played in were in similar disrepair which was what made them awesome.

I adapted pretty well I think but I did have all these great people around me keeping me safe so I’m grateful for that. I had a few wild times but that’s part of growing up and learning. Sydney was so alive compared to Perth. Plus I’d never really seen the seedy side of life so of course I thought that was pretty exciting too. If I was to compare the two cities at that time I’d say Perth was a kitten and Sydney was a Lion. It was a great time to be in a band in Sydney with the live scene being so vibrant.

++ How did you end up signing to Waterfront Records? Did they approach you? How was your relationship with them?

I can’t recall if we asked them or our management did or if they approached us..I forgot to answer this above. We signed with them after we got to Sydney. They were really supportive of us and very nice guys. We had a great team helping us.

++ Something that strikes me is that your first release wasn’t a single or EP but the “Goddess” album. Not many bands get an album as a first release. What did you think of that at the time?

We just had the material and recorded it very cheaply, it just seemed to come together nicely. I was over the moon, it was the first recording I’d done so yes I was very happy.

++ By the way, who is the girl on the photograph of the front cover?

That’s Lillian Gish, a silent movie actress. I love that cover.

++ The album was recorded at Poons Head in Perth. How was that experience, any anecdotes you could share? Were you already familiar with recording studios by then or you had already made demo tapes before?

I think we’d done some demos but nothing like that. It was interesting for me to see how it’s all done. Recording can be arduous I’ve since learnt, especially when you have limited time and do an overnight block. But Poons Head was set up in a house so it was nice and relaxed so we got the tracks down pretty swiftly. Once it’s all mixed, it’s a great feeling knowing you’ve collaborated on something you’re proud of.

++ And how did The Honeys creative process work?

Sometimes Bruce would have a full song, sometimes he’d have a melody and a few words. In those cases I’d write some extra lyrics though I’m not that prolific. Grant almost always has the whole song mapped out so all I had to do is sing.

++ Which bands would you say were influences?

Well Bruce loved a range of music as did Grant. At the time I was still listening to the above bands I mentioned and loved Cocteau Twins, who doesn’t?! Lucinda Williams, good Country music. I went to see Falling Joys, Ups and Downs and then Big Heavy Stuff later, also the Clouds. They were all mates, still are and so good to see live. I think Suzie Higgie from Falling Joys and Jodi and Trish from the Clouds are extraordinary songwriters and great performers.

++ To promote the album you made a video for “Against The Elements”. Was it your first promo video? How was that experience?

Yes it was and I was ahem, how shall I say this, still very green. I’m not particularly comfortable on camera, it’s not something I relish but it turned out alright for a first attempt.

++ The next release also had a video, and perhaps is my favourite song of yours “The Man Who Was Through With the World”. Would you care telling me in a few sentences what is this song about?

Now that song and video I like! I’m sorry, Bruce wrote that so I can only surmise. I never really asked him what it was about, I just liked the lyrics and my take on it is that it’s about a particular person he may have known. I didn’t really feel the need to know what a song meant to be able to sing it. If I get the gist, that’s enough for me to create meaning around it. Hope that makes sense.

++ James from The Widdershins contributed piano and organ on the record. Was there a tight-knit scene with other guitar pop bands? What other bands in Australia did you call friends then?

Yep, we were friends with the Widdershins, Falling Joys, Clouds, Ups and Downs, Dutiful Daughters, Big Heavy Stuff, Hummingbirds, Skolars, Chads Tree, Swordfish, if I had a good think, I’d remember more. There were some really lovely people in bands back then and it was a fantastic opportunity for me to make lasting friendships.

++ This record also has some beautiful artwork. How much control did you have on it? Or was it Waterfront making those decisions?

We made decisions about artwork and thanks!

++ And what about that video? I noticed on Youtube that it used to be played on the music program “Rage”. Did it get much attention?

I’m not sure which one you mean but we did enjoy quite good exposure thanks to Rage when we were together.

++ After that there was another 7″ single with “Gone Away” and “Monster”. There was no video for this one, right? And how come it only came on the Waterfront standard sleeve?

Hmmm, testing my memory now..No video and I have no clue as to why no artwork. Perhaps we were low on funds, bit cheeky really that we didn’t do artwork!

++ Then there’s a long break for The Honeys. What happened? I read Andrea moved to Perth and each of you continued making music with your own projects. What other bands were you involved with?

I ended the Honeys, things felt stale and it felt right at the time. Grant and I formed Catherine Wheel and that was lots of fun. I was also in Pollyanna for short while after that. Then I came home to roost! 

++ In 2007 you reunited and released a new album, “Star Baby”. How did this reunion come through? And were these brand new songs or songs from back in the day?

Again dear Bruce had written some new songs as had Grant so I was of course keen to add my bit. I flew to Grant’s house and we recorded the songs over a few days. We did a couple of short tours after it’s release too. I think only Run Run was an oldie, all the rest were newly penned.

++ This record came out on the label Origin. Who were they?

I’m sorry, I didn’t handle that side of things so I don’t actually know.

++ There were a few reunion gigs, right? How was that experience? Much different to playing live back in the day?

They were great, we had some fantastic musicians playing live with us so the sound was full and rich. A bit nerve wracking of course, it’d had been a while but the gigs were wonderful to be a part of.

++ And what about the gigs in the 80s and 90s? Are there any in particular that you remember? What would you say was the best gig you did? And was there any bad gigs?

I loved the Hopetoun hotel, every gig there was fun. The Annandale was great too, the Petersham and the Landsdowne. Back in the day when pubs were smoky and the carpet was beer soaked. Ahhh, great times! Not really any bad gigs, but Uni lunchtime shows were never a highlight. I don’t think I’m alone in that opinion!

++ What about radio and TV? Did you get much attention? And the music press? Fanzines?

Radio yes, high rotation there for a while on JJJ which was great. TV no, just Rage, which was also great. Music press, yes, we were very lucky to be reviewed quite often and even had front covers a few times on On The Street, Drum Media and Juke.

++ While you were on a break, in 1995, a double CD titled “Ultimo” was released including the whole “Goddess” album and other rare songs on the label Phantom. Who were they? I also wonder about where these rare songs come from? And also what about those songs “Live at the Wireless”? What was The Wireless?

Phantom were another indie Sydney label that did great things for bands they signed. Very supportive people. The songs were some that we hadn’t released before and thought they needed inclusion. Live at the wireless was a program on JJJ featuring bands playing live in the studio.

++ And as that covered most of your discography I’m curious to know what would your favourite Honeys’ song be?

Wood for the Trees by a mile! Love everything about that beautiful, dreamy song.

++ You appeared on a couple of compilations but the one I’m mostly curious about is the “Shiver Me Timbers” tape on Rutland Records as it was an English label. Do you remember how did you end up there?

What the? Send me that tape! Haha!

++ After those reunion gigs, when did The Honeys stopped playing again?

Bruce and I did a couple of gigs here in Perth but the last one would’ve been about 18 months ago.

++ Then there was the passing of Bruce in 2016, very sad news, but I read The Honeys played a sort of tribute gig alongside Flicker and The Snow Leopards. How was that evening? Must have been very difficult?

We did and it was a truly humbling experience. It was also joyful to see all those people attending and all the people who performed to honour Bruce. My friend Matt worked hard to bring it all together even though he’d say it was easy. He’s a generous fellow. Bruce would’ve been so touched by that day, it was something I’ll treasure.

++ Now, looking back through all these adventures of yours in The Honeys, what would you say was the biggest highlight of The Honeys?

By far hearing our song played on the radio for the first time. And seeing our video on TV. It’s surreal and I still pinch myself to think about it. Some terrific gigs too and seeing people having a blast. Nothing beats it.

++ And today, are you still making music? Or what do you dedicate your time to these days? Any other hobbies?

I’m not at the moment, I have a small business now but I’d never say no to future recordings. Perhaps I’ll have a chat to Grant!

++ Thanks again Andrea and Grant. I would love to interview you some other time about your other bands, I already asked way too many questions now! But I have one last one, are there still any unreleased songs by The Honeys?

Nothing that I know of at this stage, I’m sure Bruce would have books full of lyrics somewhere…

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Listen
The Honeys – The Man Who Was Through With the World

Just a week ago I wrote about the Tokyo one-man project Tricycle Popstar who released a bunch of records and even more songs in the 90s. Thanks to the help of Mike Innes from They Go Boom!! I could find Masahiro Kodama, the man behind this brilliant band, on Facebook. Luckily Masahiro was very kind and when I asked to do an interview he said yes. I’m very happy how this interview turned out thanks to Masahiro’s thoughtful answers where he paints clearly how was the Japanese scene in the 90s. Sounds like it was a fun and interesting time!

++ Hi Masahiro, thanks a lot for trying to answer my questions, hope your memory is good! I would like to do this interview chronologically, start from the beginning. So yeah, where are you from in Japan? Tokyo? And what sort of music did you listen when growing up?

I grew up in Akita, a rural area in the northern part of mainland Japan. Its a famous place for rice production, there are rice fields everywhere; and It’s very cold in winter.

When I was young, I really like “Kayou kyoku” (which is Japanese mainstream pop music. I always check TV music programs out; it’s like Japanese “Top of the Pops” kind of TV show. Those TV music programs in Showa (昭和)- era were so good. The stage sets changing every different songs / every different artists.

When I was in Jr. high, the Japanese economy was booming, and the Japanese music scene really changed.
New Romantic kind of music, techno pop, Heavy metal (which I never liked) etc. I like Dead or Alive(!), The Housemartins, Nik Kershaw, Hubert Kah, A-HA, Pet Shop Boys etc. And my music tastes also changed around the same time. I found different types of music like – The Flipper’s Guitar!! For the country boy like me they are so bright, vivid & colourful, with a great sense of humour…they were my idols at the time.  And infact I still love them they made a huge influence on me.

++ Something that impressed me from the sleeve of the flexi is that it says you played all instruments. So I’m wondering what instruments do you know how to play? And what was your first instrument and how did you get it?

All instruments skills are self-taught, so I’m not really that good. I can play a little bit of Guitar & Keys, and some programming of Drum machine, that’s all. My first instrument was the Electone, which is modern type of electronic organs.  I never had a music tutor or anything, But we always had an electronic organ at home which I would dabble with. It had so many buttons, you could change the sound, rhythm, and it has auto arpeggiator as well. I was started making songs with it when I was about 13 years old.

I started the Folk Guitar (Takamine) when I was in High school.  I was never interested in Guitar Solos. But I like chord cuttings.

Late years of my high school days, I got a Drum machine (I think YAMAHA RX 5). And after graduate from high school in Akita, I moved to Tokyo where I bought a KORG 01W/FD. It’s a workstation synthesizer, it has synthesizer, sequencer, drum sounds and you can save those song tracks on floppy disks! It was so high-tech at the time!

AND This isn’t music instrument, but very important thing, Multi Track Recorders (We called MTR). When I was in high school I used a 4-tack recorder (I think TASCAM PORTA 05). And later in Tokyo (18 years old ~) I got myself an 8-tack recorder (TASCUM PORTASTUDIO 488).

++ Was Tricycle Popstar your first band or had you been involved in any other bands?

Tricycle Popstar is not my first project. In my high school days, I have a band to play my original songs with my hometown friends. Also doing my solo project as well. And one time did Synth pop duo with my friend to cover 10cc’s “I’m not in love” for music contest. In my Akita days, I really liked to play at music contest. Because I could often do quite well.

++ Was Tricycle Popstar really a solo project? Or did you get help from friends?

Tricycle Popstar is my solo project. Hiroshi Kudo (my band mate from my hometown) helped with bass guitar when we recorded The Love mushrooms’ songs.

++ Why the name Tricycle Popstar?

I forgot how I decided this project name…Maybe I discuss about naming the project with Mark, but I really can’t remember. It’s silly meaningless name isn’t it?!

++ How was Tokyo then? What were your usual hangouts? The venues you used to frequent to check out bands? And were there any like-minded bands that you liked then?

I was in Tokyo 1991~1993. (When was 19~21 years old) For a shy country kid from the north, Tokyo is a big, big city. I didn’t have many connections, just few friends in Tokyo.  What I do? Just go & check somewhere new area in Tokyo is always kind a fun for me at that time. Every local area has unique taste. I often went to, SHIMOKITAZAWA, SHINJYUKU, SHIBUYA back then.

Candy Eyes (another band from A Trumpet Trumpet Records), All Twin’s Birthday were friends of mine, so we would often go & see them playing. [https://www.discogs.com/label/178272-A-Trumpet-Trumpet-Records]

++ And in general, what would you say were the bands that inspired you and influenced Tricycle Popstar?

The Housemartins, The Flipper’s Guitar, Sex Clark Five, Egg Stone, Candy eyes, Nelories, Mama Cass, Many late 60’s psyche pops band like The Beatles, The Cyrkle, The Millennium, The Left Banke, The Hollies, French pops like France Gall, Francoise Hardy.

++ Most of your releases were on the label Behavior Saviour. Was it your own label? Or who were they?

Behavior Saviour is our own label managed by Mark & I. Mainly released my recordings and released some compilation CDs. And also released 7” single for friend band call “All Twin’s Birthday”.

I would like to mention Shintaro Taketani, he is musician, I met him through Mark, where they both worked at a posh arty cafe EAST GALLERY in Ebisu. One day, He give me a demo of his creation, I was amazed by he’s music. His music unit called “Paris Collection” was on one of our compilation CD. He is living in London now. I think he is great artist.

++ At first your releases came out in the cassette format. Do you remember more or less how many copies were made? And if you were to pick, as you released almost in every sort of format, from vinyl to tape to CD, which will be your favourite and why?

My favourite format is CD. CD doesn’t have any interference. Sometimes, I can’t concentrate to listen to music if too much noise in the background.  However I also like Vinyls too. I like the big art space & warmer sound.

Regarding our cassette release from earlier of our catalogue, those cassette selling at Rough Trade Tokyo, I don’t remember how many we sold. But not much, I don’t think. Probably about 30 each release.

++ Also was wondering why you choose to write your songs in English instead of Japanese? What was the reason?

I thought singing in English is cool. If I write serious song in Japanese, that sounds really serious and straight. If I write silly song in Japanese, that sounds really silly and foolish.

++ Did you ever make songs in Japanese?
Yes. Before coming to Tokyo, I write songs in Japanese.

++ I noticed that 1993 was a very prolific year for Tricycle Popstar, releasing a bunch of records and recording so many songs. Why was that? And how come no other year was like it?

Around that year I send lots of demo tape to other labels too and also we made a lots of connections.
Some labels’ project takes very long time and Some are quick (but usually takes long time), I think the releasing those other labels works just over lapped all at the same time around 1993.

++ I also noticed that there were a few shared releases with the band The Love Mushrooms. Who were them?

The Love Mushrooms was my project before Tricycle Popstar. Me & two Tasmanian girls, Wendy & Darelle, whom I also met through Mark. (also from Tasmanian too). And my hometown friend, Hiroshi Kudo was helping to play bass guitar.

++ You wrote the song “I Like Curry Rice” and I suppose you do. What other dishes are favourite of Masahiro Kodama that you would have loved to write them a song?

Kara-age is one of my favourite Japanese dishes. However I’m into making fermented foods at the moment. I make my Koji, Miso and Nukazuke on my own. So I’d make song like “Microorganism’s orgasm”.

++ On the flexi it says that you got help with the lyrics by Mark Davis. He also helped with the art. Who was he?
He is my partner. We are together over 25 years now.

We didn’t come out to our Japanese friends when we living in Tokyo, I said to them “We are friend”. However we were living together in small apartment in Tokyo.

++ “Saviour Once More” was your mini-album and I was wondering about the two guests on it, Roberto Massaglia and Wendy Brown. How did they help you on the record?

Wendy Brown (The Love Mushrooms) & Roberto (her partner back then), They sing,  “Moaner is My Cat”. The song is about their cat.

++ Also because of the song “Moaner is My Cat” and how I see cats are popular in Japanese indiepop, I wondered if you actually really had a cat then?

Moaner was Wendy & Roberto’s cat in Tokyo.  At my hometown, we had cats, and many other animals too.  A big ‘Tosa-ken’ dog, peacocks, chickens, turkeys and even minks, all of those animals were my grand father’s hobby.

++ Then I noticed that Behavior Saviour and you it seems moved to Melbourne, Australia. Is that right? Why did you move? And how was the change? Did you like it at first?

Mark’s working visa was going to expire so I applied a working holiday visa to go to Australia. We moved to Sydney first. We live there 3 years (1994~1997) and then move to Melbourne.  I love Melbourne more.

I fell in love with that laid back Aussie way of living as soon as I moved here.

++ I assume you found a different music scene there. Did you continue making music? Did you find any bands that you really like?

I thought Japanese indie music scene was quite big, however Australian indie music scene was quite small and dotted.
From an indie music label point of view, I thought it’s quite difficult to do within Australia.
++ The last release on Behavior Saviour was your album “Apostasy” in 1995. Were the songs on it reworkings of previous ones or was it more of a compilation album?

“No skin off my ass” & “Rocking chair is still rocking” was reworked. I think other tracks were on “Apostasy” was same materials on other compilation CDs“.

++ I’m also curious about your creative process. How did that work for you? And what about recording? Where did you usually record?

I had an 8-tack multi track recorder (TASCAM PORTASTUDIO 488). I always recorded in my bedroom. Usually I make song with my Guitar first, and then I make a song titles or lyrics next. I made a song title first when I make “Peach boy’s Bed sounds”.

++ Your last release was a split 7″ with Orange Cake Mix on the American label Blackbean and Placenta Tape Club. How come you ended up on an American label? Did you ever get to visit the US?

Regarding Blackbean and Placenta Tape Club release, I can’t remember I sent a demo to them or they contact us… I haven’t been to the US before.  In US, there are/were many great indie record labels. I personally like The Bus Stop Label. I would still love to go to the US one day.

++ There were a bunch of compilation appearances by the band, but I’m curious about one of the first ones, the one on the French fanzine “Gloomy Biscuit”. How did your music got to France in pre-internet times? Do you remember?

Sorry I can’t remember…

++ I mentioned a bunch of compilation appearances, like the “Lily’s S’ghetti Factory”, “Going Against Maz’s Advice”, “Come All Ye Faithful” and “Let’s Muc Out On Sound” on my blog. Was I missing any other compilation that you appeared?

In 1993, Auto Guide Records (Japan) release Auto Guide’s First Triangle (Compilation CD   AGR-1001) The Love Mushrooms was on it.

++ And what about unreleased Tricycle Popstar songs? Are there any more?

I remember there was one song, but with changing technology I think I have lost the data now.

++ So what happened in 1996 after the split 7″ with Orange Cake Mix? Why were the no more releases by Tricycle Popstar?

I think I needed new start or I was just busy living everyday life.

++ What did you do afterwards? Did you continue making music?

I start new project called “HACCHUUM” (haku-chuu-mu 白昼夢) it means “day dream” in Japanese. More psyche pop taste music. https://soundcloud.com/hacchuum

++ What about gigs? Did you play live much as Tricycle Popstar? Any happy anecdotes you could share?

In Tokyo days, I remember I’ve done two live as Tricycle Popstar. Play electric guitar and sing with karaoke backing tracks. As The Love Mushrooms, we did one live event at Meiji University campus festival (I think play with Nerolies & Venus Peter). However, that gig was terrible.

++ And radio? And music press? did they give you much attention? What about fanzines?

The Love Mushrooms were played on College Radio Chart show.Few fanzines were interested in The Love Mushrooms/Tricycle Popstar.

++ What about today? Are you still making music? What other hobbies do you have?

I continue making music pieces. Just playing guitar & sing. Not for recording (I’m not good with Computer based music making). Playing music is more meditative process for me. I love listening music & watch movies. Mark & I are into making fermented food right now. Made Miso, Koji, Natto, Suerkraut, and Kefir etc.

++ You are now based in Melbourne, but do you go back often to Japan? Are there any indiepop bands either in Australia or Japan that you’d recommend?

Yeah we still get back there every year, here are some good ones:

Ben Mason – https://soundcloud.com/benmason

Adrian Whitehead- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlwzSmnuUhA&list=PLn3qOPaLrhTyT495cE37HZwkDU0ihIGo4

Lamp – https://soundcloud.com/lamp-japan

frenesi – https://soundcloud.com/nesi-ko

Shintaro Taketani – https://soundcloud.com/shintaro-taketani

Dai Ogasawara (ex Candy eyes – He’s doing indie music label called Ano(t)raks) – https://soundcloud.com/twangytwangy/tracks

Coffee garden (ex All Twin’s Birthday) – https://soundcloud.com/coffee-garden

Hajimepop – https://soundcloud.com/hajimepop

++ I assume as we were talking about Japanese food earlier that you might have had some interest in Australian food? Have you find anything that you like there?

Meat pies, Chicken parmigiana, Vanilla slice are my favourite Aussie meals.

++ And as a foreigner in Australia, what would you recommend a tourist checking out in Melbourne where is were you live now?

We live in Abbotsford. We really like this area. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbotsford,_Victoria

And I recommended going to “Hanging Rock”. http://www.visitmacedonranges.com/see-do/the-great-outdoors/hanging-rock/

++ Let’s start wrapping the interview, what would you say was the biggest highlight of Tricycle Popstar?

This interview 🙂 Knowing somebody listening to my songs.

++ And what would you say indiepop means to you?

For me indiepop means, 青春 (sei-shun) in Chinese character 青 means Blue 春 means Spring. Meaning bloom of youth / the passion of youth. When I was doing music & label, it was pre-internet, so everything took a lot of time.
Write mail to people, making artwork by our hand, making music etc. But I like the way it was. It was warmer, more physical connection to it.

Indiepop is DIY spirit.

You can do it, if you want to.

++ Anything else you’d like to add?

Thanks Roque for asking to do the interview.

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Listen
Tricycle Popstar – Passion & Kind

Thanks so much to Mark Radcliffe for answering a bunch of my questions and telling the story of The County Fathers! Just a week or so ago I wrote a post on my blog about the band looking for more information and Mark was kind enough to get in touch. The County Fathers were based in Manchester and released just one record, a 3 song 12″ with “Lightheaded” as the opening track on the Ugly Man label. It is a fantastic record but for some reason it didn’t make the splash it deserved. Today Mark continues at BBC 6music and making music.

++ Hi Mark! Thanks so much for being up for this interview! There’s little written on the internet about the County Fathers so this is a great chance for me, and many, to learn a bit more about it. But let’s start with the present, what are you up to these days? Still involved with the BBC, right? But are you still making music? Perhaps writing a new book?

I currently co-present the afternoon show (1-4pm) on BBC 6music with Stuart Maconie and also the Radio 2 Folk Show on Wednesday evenings at 7. I play drums and sing for a seven piece folk-rock band called Galleon Blast (pirate themed!) and I also do a one man show of songs and stories where I play guitar.
I’ve always loved playing guitar and drums equally.

++ You were born in Bolton, right? So how did you end up in Manchester? And what sort of music did you listen while growing up?

I grew up in Bolton playing drums in local rock covers bands and listening to a lot of glam rock like Bowie, Roxy Music and T.Rex. I also loved Floyd and Genesis.
In 1976 I went to Manchester University just as punk rock exploded and so my life and my listening totally changed. I started writing songs of my own around this time and met my lifelong friend Phil Walsmley (guitarist) in my first week at uni.

++ How was Manchester then? From what I see from a distance is that there was such a fantastic scene, with so many great bands and venues. Now even there’s a new box set celebrating the 80s in Manchester. Who did you feel were like-minded bands? And what about your usual hangouts or favourite venues?

Manchester was a really exciting place for gigs at that time and we went to lots of punk and new wave shows at places like Rafters, The Squat, The Factory and The Electric Circus.
Phil and I were in a new wave art rock band called She Cracked who are included on the latest Manchester box set.
Really Joy Division set the standard we all tried, and failed, to live up to. Their records still sound like important historical documents to me.

++ Before The County Fathers you were involved in Skewdriver. How was that experience?

As regards Skrewdriver – this is quite a difficult subject which I have written about before. Before any racist and white supremacist nonsense started Skrewdriver were Phil’s band from his schooldays in Poulton-le-Fylde.
They were just a guitar punk band and later on their singer Ian Donaldson kept the name and recruited a whole new line-up for his racist rantings.
I just helped them out before any of the unpleasantness surfaced as they needed a drummer for a couple of tours.

++ How did The County Fathers start as a band? How did you three know each other? And are you still in touch?

The County Fathers started really as a vehicle for the songs I was writing. John Clayton was a producer at Piccadilly Radio and a good guitarist and I wanted the song ‘Lightheaded’ to have two dueeling lead guitarists and so I pitched Phil and John against each other. It worked really well and Phil would usually chip in with some nifty bass too. We’re still in touch. John works for the BBC and Phil and I had a later band called The Big Figures a few years ago.

++ What’s the story behind the band’s name?

The name the County Fathers – I had been reading about some American elders setting the rules for their locality and they were referred to as county fathers. I liked the name and also we had all three of us just become fathers so it seemed to fit. Many times it was mis-printed as The Country Fathers. I don’t remember us rehearsing much really. It was always intended initially as a recording project rather than a live band although we did later play live a couple of times with Richard Jones and Craig Wolf of The Desert Wolves, who I’d produced for Guy Lovelady/Uglyman – which was how that association came about.

++ Something that I was curious about were the photos on the sleeve. It is like you did the ice bucket challenge before anyone else. What’s going on on those photos? And who is the baby on the front sleeve photo?

About the photos on the sleeve – I found the front cover of the baby on a postcard in a shop and loved it. Again, it seemed to fit with the fathers theme.
then I asked the famous rock photographer Kevin Cummins, who was a friend, to shoot the three of us on waste ground outside his studio near the train station. It was very cold that day!

++ There were three songs on the record, “Lightheaded”, “You Think It’s So Funny” and “Deep South (long version”. If you can, in a couple of sentences, tell me what inspired these songs?

Of those initial songs ‘You Think It’s So Funny’ was the poppiest and was inspired by The Smiths a bit I think. It was about my ex-wife in a very oblique way.
‘Lightheaded’ was really just an exercise is seeing how many guitars we could get on one track. There are dozens on there. A wall of sound. Love it. The words are just nonsense really.
‘Deep South’ was inspired by a film about the KKK. There were a couple of other songs we worked on – the only one I can find is ‘Plain Sailing’ which is about being lost at sea.

++ On this record you worked with Nick Garside. In which studio were the songs recorded? And how was the experience of working with Nick?

So when we got to the studio I would lay down most of the basic tracks on my own with Nick Garside engineering and then we would build up Phil and John’s parts on my basic track.
Nick had a little, dark, quite scruffy studio called Out of the Blue in the backstreets of downtown Manchester, quite a dodgy area, but he was an absolutely brilliant engineer and producer.
Lots of bands used him because he did an amazing job on minimal budgets. He was a real enabler for a lot of musicians in those days.

++ Guy Lovelady mentions in his blog that you were afterwards in a pop band called St Cloud. Was this a similar sounding band? Who were in the band?

So John, Phil and I sort of drifted apart but I stayed in touch with Richard the bass player and we spent a lot of time backing the Manchester pop comedian Frank Sidebottom.
in that band was a really lovely guy called Michael Taylor who is not only a wonderfully atmospheric guitarist but also a great artist and designer.
The three of us then started to write more songs which I considered to be the next stage of The County Fathers although we were thinking of the names St.Cloud and Deep Blue Day too.
I think the only gigs we did might have been under the name St.Cloud but with my voice and words to the fore it was very much County Fathers part two for me.

++ There were many songs recorded by the band that didn’t get to be released as Guy mentions on his blog. He says there is a CD with a bunch of recordings. How many unreleased songs are there?

We recorded at the famous Strawberry Studios in Stockport where 10cc did all their stuff and also where Joy Division did ‘Unknown Pleasures’.
The engineer was another brilliant guy called Steve Robertshaw who I knew from the BBC. Sadly he died in a glider accident a few years later. A tragedy.
We also recorded at a studio in central Manchester called Startrack with another gifted, if bonkers, engineer called Royston Hollyer.
I always had the sound in my head but needed great technicians to help me to get there – however it all got a lot easy with Mike on guitar as he just created this shimmering cloud of noise.
I still totally love his sound and it began to shape everything we did. Initially I played the drums but when we moved towards gigging we recruited a really good drummer called David Dunne.
So, of the thirteen songs you can hear on the cd four will be County Fathers Mk1 (me, Phil, John) eight are Mk.2 (me, Mike, Richard, David) and one song called ‘New Secrets Sealed’ was written by me and Mike but recorded by me on my own.

++ Looking back in time, what would you say was the biggest highlight for The County Fathers?

I look back on it all with pride and sadness really. I thought we did some wonderful stuff which I still think sounds great and so that’s what matters I suppose. But of course I feel sad that no-one ever really got to hear it. I still hope that could change. Maybe you will make all the difference by getting it out there.

++ Thanks again Mark! Anything else you’d like to add?

A couple of years ago I recorded again with Mike Taylor and the old magic was still there but again, nothing came of it.
If there was interest and demand I know that Mike and I would come back together and start writing again.
I think the two of us compliment each other perfectly and so there’s lots we could do – especially with another collaborator called Gareth Blazey who helped us out with programming, sampling and all things technical.
There are lots of possibilities there so who knows.

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Listen
The County Fathers – You Think It’s So Funny

Thanks so much to Russ Hunt and Nick Raybould for this brilliant interview! The Libertines were a Birmingham band in the mid/late 80s and released just one record, the “Smith is a Liar 12” and actually you can still get copies of it through Russ’ record store White Rabbit Records. I wrote a blog post about them some months ago trying to find out any information about this obscure band and I was lucky that both Russ and Nick got in touch! Even better they are also still in touch with each other and answered my questions together. Aside from the record they recorded more songs, some which I’ve heard, and I must tell you, it was really a shame they didn’t get to put out another record! Hope you enjoy the interview!

++ Hi Russ and Nick! Thanks a lot for being up for this interview. I hear Russ now runs a record store in Shrewsbury, care telling me a bit more about that? How long have you had the store? What’s the name? And what sort of music do you carry?

Nick: I’ll leave Russ to answer this one – but will add that I am an occasional patron, having bagged a few goodies on CD and vinyl. He’s also carrying the last release I did with my band Glowpeople.

Russ: The shop is called White Rabbit Records (http://whiterabbitrecords.co.uk) and is in the Market Hall in Shrewsbury. We stock mainly 2nd hand/used records and some CD’s with a very few new items, mainly by people I know and who want an outlet for their stuff. To be honest I stock anything that sells…you learn very quickly you’re running a business not building a record collection.

I’ve had the shop just over 18 months now. I was made redundant from a job I’d been in for 17 years and honestly couldn’t see myself going back into the regular world of work, the very thought of being interviewed by some hot shot graduate straight offof the HR course made me feel ill. I’ve spent years of my life in record shops all over the world and when the opportunity came up to buy this one (the owner was retiring) my wonderful wife Deb said “well if you don’t do it now, you never will”.

++ And what about you Nick? What are you up to these days?

Nick: I’m a graphic designer, in real life. In fact, that’s what I was doing back in my Libertines days. Sometimes I’d get in at 3am, from a long distance gig in say Newcastle – only to have to be in work for 9am, at the design studio!! Boy, I really don’t think i could do that kinda thing these days!!

++ When was the last time you picked up your instruments? Do you have any music projects at the moment?

Russ: I still play, very infrequently, in fact I’ve just put my guitar down as I’m trying to figure out some new songs for a gig myself and Sally, a good friend who sings with me, have coming up. We’re an acoustic duo doing other people’s songs for fun, all sorts of stuff from Chuck Berry thru Depeche Mode to The Decemberists.

Nick: Well, as mentioned in my previous answer, I am drumming once again. But, shortly after The Libertines disbanded I moved down to London and gave the drumming a bit of a rest. This haitus in fact lasted FOURTEEN years! It was on moving out to the more rural area of Shropshire that I began drumming once again. Various local bands came and went, until I formed Glowpeople. we were together for something like six years. We soon found ourselves playing the small festival scene in the UK, in which time we also released three albums on CD and, following our final appearance at Kozfest, last Summer released the live recording as a final sign off.

Since then I have been gigging and recording with a variety of UK psychedelic bands. Nothing like the larger capacity venues The Libertines played whilst touring with The Wonder Stuff, but hope springs eternal, eh? Glowpeople were usually somewhere down the bill, but we played with Gong, Jesus Jones, Hawkwind, Big Country, The Crazy World Of Arthur Brown, Here & Now and a bunch of newer bands like Mugstar and Vibravoid.

I’m now playing with bands on the same kinda circuit again. Some of it is recording only – I’ve played with up and coming space rockers vert:x, with whom we appeared on lovely bright splattery orange vinyl for Dronerock Records. I’m also recording improvised music with the old keys player of Glowpeople and a variety of guest collaborators. I even had a jam in NYC with a fellow head, back in the Autumn! There’s talk of a session I recently did with Peyote Guru being released. I’m just not sure who’s actually putting that out, as I type!

My main current band are called Black Light Secret and this Summer we’re playing festivals like Surplus Fest and Green Gathering – and will be doing indoor gigs in Nottingham and Glastonbury among others.

++ Let’s go back in time then, what would you say are your earliest music memories? Like what sort of music did you listen at home while growing up? When and what was your first instrument?

Russ: Earliest musical memories would have been hearing The Move on the radio and then watching stuff on Top Of the Pops (a weekly UK TV pop show) and being captivated by the likes of Slade, T.Rex and eventually Wizzard among whose members was my Uncle Bill (he was the piano player and had been in the The Move during its final days and the early days of ELO).

My parents were big fans of Jazz and Swing music so in the house we heard everything from Charlie Parker, Miles Davis and John Coltrane to the big bands of Duke Ellington and Count Basie plus the great singers like Sinatra and Streisand. They, of course, were fans of The Beatles and Dylan and Dad would venture into things such as Steve Wonder and Bob Marley.

I was obsessed with Slade until hearing “God Save The Queen” by the Sex Pistols at which point, much the same as for many others at that time, everything changed. After that it was Punk Rock…the whole Punk Rock and nothing but Punk Rock. My Dad being a musician (he played drums in bands that toured US Army bases in Europe during the 50’s and 60’s) and seeing my brother and I inspired/obsessed by Punk our parents bought me a guitar and a small amplifier at the same Xmas as they bought my brother Miles a snare drum. We would then happily wait until our parents went out before bashing thru raucous versions of TRB’s “Up Against The Wall” and Angelic Upstarts “Police Oppression”…I’m sure the neighbours loved us !

Nick: Well, I was the eldest member of The Libertines, so I’d seen bands like T.REX and Led Zeppelin! My tastes were continually moving, though. And still are! I think when I auditioned for Russ & Co. I was into Magazine, REM, The Damned, PIL, Motorhead, The Cure and such like.

++ Were you involved in any bands before The Libertines? I know Russ was in Pop Da Freak. How were these bands? Any similarities to The Libertines’ sound?

Russ: Following those TRB/Upstarts beginnings we worked our way through loose groupings with mates who had other instruments, memberships constantly changing until we fell into my first band which was called A Moment. Me and Miles found a guy who played bass and saxophone and made our first attempts at writing songs.

The first “real” band I was in was Pop Da Freak. We formed around 1983 and we dressed in leather and frills, wore make up and had vertical haircuts (well most of us did). We made a racket inspired by Joy Division, Magazine, Iggy Pop and the Velvet Underground (or so we thought) and you can hear an example of it here https://soundcloud.com/russh29/pop-da-freak-play-life-for …that’s a song I’m still very proud of having written

Nick: Most of my earliest bands were sort of hard rock things. I then had a flirtation with a Birmingham sub Duran Duran outfit called Camille (1982). There was some decent press in Midlands press and initially some minor record company interest. However, we were a bunch of narcissistic pretty boys who fell out! I wanted to get something together that didn’t slavishly follow trends though – and before long found myself in a kinda alternative postpunk outfit called Anonymous Bosch in 1985.

++ And when and how did The Libertines start as a band? How was the recruiting process? How did you all know each other?

Russ: The initial idea for The Libertines would have been born following the demise of Pop Da Freak around 1986. Details are a little hazy but as I recall I advertised for a guitarist to put something together inspired by Punk and The Clash/Pistols/Jam holy trinity. I hooked up with Mark Bellamy and we started working on some songs. Mark was a HUUUUUUGE Clash fan and also introduced me to the Screaming Blue Messiahs. I in turn would have introduced Mark to early Pop Will Eat Itself and things like The Mighty Lemon Drops and the Wild Flowers so that’s where our heads were at. I’m pretty sure the first song we wrote together was “Train Train”.

I’m guessing we advertised for a drummer and bass player when we had a few songs together and Nick and Paul Clifford were who we found ? (Help me out here Nick)

Nick: I lived in Redditch, a market town in Worcestershire, some twenty miles south of Birmingham, at the time. I was in Birmingham shopping one Saturday afternoon in 1987, where I saw an advert on a noticeboard in Oasis, the big Birmingham alternative fashion market. I was then invited along to audition at the High Society rehearsal studios. And… got the gig!

++ You were based in Birmingham, right? How was it back then? What were the bands in town that you liked? What were your usual hangouts? What were the best venues to check out bands?

Russ: Birmingham and The Midland’s live music scene was thriving in the early 80’s. Venues all over town, The Barrel Organ, The Railway Inn, Peacock’s, The C.O.D Club, The Click Club at Burberries, JB’s in Dudley…lots of places for bands to play.

The bands that I liked back then would be The Great Outdoors, From Eden (members of who went on to The Wonder Stuff and Pop Will Eat Itself), the Mighty Lemon Drops, The Wild Flowers, Korova Milk Bar, April In The Garden…lots of diverse stuff going on.

Nick: There used to be a good alternative club night at The Powerhouse. It was a midweek thing, so I didn’t go very often – but it was full of groovy muzos, all trying to out-pose each other! That venue put on some great bands, too.  Smaller venues about town like The Barrel Organ pub, and Peacocks bar – which was in a city centre hotel (!) and Snobs nightclub were all popular for bands like Russ’s Pop Da Freak and my own Anonymous Bosch.

++ Who would you say influenced your sound?

Nick: We all came to the band with our own set of favourite bands and musicians, but I think, as a band The Wonder Stuff were right up there. As were The Mission, That Petrol Emotion, Balaam & The Angel, Pop Will Eat Itself, The Screaming Blue Messiahs and The Replacements.

Russ: from my point of view undoubtedly The Jam and The Clash would be the main points of influence. But I’d also absorbed all that Glam Rock stuff from the 70’s and I hope there was a Punk Rock edge to it. I’d also been very into the 1979/80 Mod Revival in the UK so wanted to capture some of the energy of bands like Secret Affair and The Chords, great and very underrated bands.

Comtemporary stuff we were listening to and absorbing would have been the Screaming Blue Messiahs, The Rainmakers, Mighty Lemon Drops, That Petrol Emotion, the Icicle Works, REM, early Waterboys (first 3 albums), The Smithereens, Balaam & The Angel…it was a very fertile time for new music.

++ What’s the story behind the name of the band? And what do you feel about the other The Libertines, the ones that became mainstream and all more than a decade ago?

Russ: I recall it was Paul the bass player who came up with the name, that’s about as much as I remember.

As for the other lot…when they first broke I had a lot of people saying you should sue them but obviously we didn’t. I wish I had now as it may have gone toward shutting the annoying twat and his terrible band up ! (never been one to sit on the fence me)

Nick: I think Paul Clifford put the name forward. We all thought it was perfect!

The Carl Barat & Pete Doherty outfit are… hmmm… a bit of an Emperor’s new clothes thing, IMO. I dearly wanted to like them – and loose, lofi music is cool, but these guys are too affected and a bit fake.

++ How did the creative process work for the band?

Nick: Russ and Mark were the main song writers, though I do remember Paul coming along with a few grooves, too. ’Smith Is  A Liar’, as I remember it ,was mostly his.

Russ: Most of the time it was myself and Mark coming up with ideas. We would work on them together at home and usually present the band with pretty much an arranged song which we’d then hone in a rehearsal room.

Paul would contribute too, “Smith Is A Liar” being his big one (BTW Smith was Martyn “Mr” Smith, erstwhile Libertines roadie cos he had a van, which we’ll get to later, and friend of Paul’s. Mr Smith went on to perform the same kind of van driving services for Ned’s Atomic Dustbin and ended up working on the crew with me for The Wonder Stuff and later on Sparklehorse. It’s Mr Smith’s beaming smile on the cover of the record).

We were never really “jammers”.

++ Who were Loose Fish Records? Was it your own label?

Russ: It was us and was, I think, Nick’s idea for a label name.

Nick: One of the many interpretations of the word Libertine is “a loose fish”. We collectively stumped up the cash to get the record made. So sort of named the label after ourselves.

++ You released one record, the “Smith is a Liar” 12″ in 1987. You included 3 songs on it, “Smith is a Liar”, “Christina” and “The Big 1-2”. If you don’t mind, care telling me the story behind these songs?

Russ: “Smith Is A Liar” was inspired by our “roadie” Mr Smith who refused to admit he was in love with a girl but rather was “in like”; “Christina” was one of Mark’s songs and is effectively about his 1st wife who we all knew as Tina; “The Big 1-2” was possibly influenced by The Wonder Stuff’s “No For the 13th Time” I think we liked that drum pattern and wrote a song around it, no idea what the lyric is about; there was a 4th song on the 12” “Boring” which if you listen to the lyric is pretty self explanatory.

Nick: ’Smith Is A Liar’ came out in 1989, didn’t it? Our roadie, a good mate of Paul the bass player denied being in love with some girl he clearly had the hots for by saying he wasn’t in love with her, but “in like” – hence Paul turned up with the title and lyrics for that one – and took Smithy by surprise when he first heard it sung to a capacity audience at London Astoria!

++ You shared with me many more songs, many worth of a single. I wonder then why didn’t you get to release more records? I read that the song “Wolf!” was supposed to be the 2nd single.

Russ: We recorded ‘Wolf’ during the session where we did ’The Big 1 – 2’. It was debated whether we should perhaps include ‘Wolf’ on the Smith EP, but we agreed it would be best to hold something back, for a follow up.

++ You shared with me many more songs, many worth of a single. I wonder then why didn’t you get to release more records? I read that the song “Wolf!” was supposed to be the 2nd single.

Russ: “Wolf!” was due to be on the 12” but we held it back to use as a 2nd release…and then the bloody singer up and left the band to go off on tour with some band signed to a major label, bloody inconsiderate prima donna !!!

++ Where do those other 9 songs come from? Are they from the same recording session for the 12″?

Russ: We did 2 or 3 other sessions and the other songs come from those sessions. I probably have the dates somewhere but they would all have been through 1987/88.

Nick: We did… I think, three recording sessions. The first was just a few weeks after I’d joined. We recorded four songs; ’Train Train’, ‘Catherine Wheel’, ‘Guess Who’s Coming To Tea’ and ‘How Are You?’ That would’ve been late Summer 1987. And, if memory serves the week after the first gig. The next session saw us record ‘Safe As Houses’, ‘Lightening Tree’, ‘Boring’ and Some Kinda Happy. These were all songs from our live set. Nothing was written as we recorded, as we could barely afford to be there, let alone be able to relax and try totally new stuff out. That said, when Miles was with us he got us experimenting with additional guitar parts, backing vocals and overdubbing bits of percussion.

i recently found the reel to reel masters of a couple of sessions in a box in our roofspace!!

++ And what do you remember about the recording session at The Workshop studio for the record? Any anecdotes you could share?

Nick: I seem to remember a replica revolver loaded with a single blank being passed around for a game of Redditch roulette! It didn’t really go down well.

Russ: I have a terrible memory for details like that. The Workshop was quite small, underground (?) or at least it felt like it. Dave Morris the owner (who sadly passed away recently) had a blue Rickenbacker 330 12-string under the sofa in the control room which I was very covetous of, it may have made an appearance on “Smith…”

++ Who made the art for the 12″ by the way?

Russ: Over to Nick…

Nick: That was me. The face is a shot I took of Smithy, our driver and hapless roadie. The title song is based on his phrase.

++ On my previous post about you I was wondering about the runoff etchings, “The Triman Cometh” on the A side, while on the B side it says “If You Can’d Do it Just Triman”. What does Triman means?

Russ: I was struggling to remember this when a friend posted something on Facebook over the weekend that triggered the memory…Mr Smith was our “roadie” because he had access to a van. The van was owned by his employers, Triman Services Ltd, who were in the business of “Design and installation of Mechanical Service systems (Gas, Oil, Water etc.) and F.O.C and F.M approved fire protection systems”. I think Mr Smith’s dad owned the company and the run out messages were our little tribute to Triman Services for use of the van….or something like that…

Nick: Smithy used to borrow a Transit van from a firm his father worked for. the company who specialised in fire assessments of buildings were called Triman and had their logo on the van! That’s it! Just a silly private joke, I’m afraid. Folks soon knew who the Wonder Stuff’s support band would be that night, when they clocked his van parked at the back of the venue!

++ You gigged all over supporting The Wonder Stuff. How was that relationship with them? And what were your favourite moments on those tours and why?

Russ: Whisper it quietly but Wonder Stuff main man Miles Hunt is my younger brother, so the relationship with them was pretty good. They looked after us, as they did all their support acts, and we got to play some big shows thanx to them.

I don’t have many favourite moments as I was so busy on those shows. I was working on the Wonder Stuff’s backline crew so spending all day getting their show ready, then, when I would usually have a few hours of downtime I was into a Libertines set up and soundcheck, doing the gig and then going straight back into Wonder Stuff mode for their show.

Nick: They were all a lovely, generous bunch of guys. Straight up. Their manager Les was a good laugh, too. We travelled separately, turning up after they’d already sound checked, most of the time. Russ, of course was part of their crew for the later gigs, so we often didn’t even see hime tie it was time for us to get our gear onstage.

++ You also played gigs with Jesus Jones in London. What other bands do you remember playing with? And which were your favourite cities to play?

Russ: The Jones’ and us shared the bill a few times on Wonder Stuff shows. I’m still in touch with them all these days and they have just finished a UK tour. I hope I’ll bump into them at the Shiiiine On Festival in November this year. Good bunch of chaps they are.

Other bands we played with included The Parachute Men from Leeds and I remember being utterly blown away when we opened for Mega City 4, they were phenomenal and I’m still friends with their bass player Gerry Bryant.

Favourite cities to play were always up North, Newcastle, Leeds, Sheffield, Glasgow. There’s no pretention up there, people just want a good night out and boy do they know how to do that. They also give a lot back to the band and if you’ve ever been up there in front of a “cool” London audience you appreciate that.

Nick: Jesus Jones were a very exciting indie band who, like Pop Will Eat Itself, brought in emerging technology in the form of live samplers. Sampling wasn’t new at that time but had chiefly been used in the studio only, owing to the value of equipment. We only encountered them when we were both on the support bill for The Wonder Stuff’s Newcastle gig on the ‘Disco King’ tour. I have since shared a bill with them and Russ, in his capacity of guitar tech for the Stuffies, has worked on many a show with them.

++ I read that you preferred going by the name Russ Williams instead of Russ Hunt. Why did you make that decision? And why Williams?

Nick: That’s a question for Russ, really. I think it was to try and deflect Miles Hunt associations, if we got any press. Which we didn’t.

Russ: I was quite a prominent member of The Wonder Stuff’s crew at the time and knew many of the journalists that were active at the time. I chose to use WIlliams on the record so as not to be accused of riding on Miles’ coattails….looking back on it, probably a really stupid idea ! We really should have milked that one for all it was worth (see question below).

And why Williams ? It’s my middle name, Russell WIlliam Hunt…

++ Did you get much attention from the press? Or radio?

Russ: Mainly local Birmingham radio and press. I had no idea John Peel had played our record until Nick mentioned it recently !

Nick: I understand BBC Radio legend John Peel played us twice! There were also indie rock programmes on local BBC stations and Birmingham’s own BRMB commercial station. Very little press for us, sadly. I think our name was mentioned occasionally, when NME or Sounds were reviewing a gig we’d supported at.

++ At that time in the 80s there was an explosion of guitar pop bands. Did you feel part of a scene? Do you mind being defined as a C86 band?

Russ: I think we felt more a part of the Midlands scene, that group of bands like TWS, PWEI, Ned’s Atomic Dustbin and that spread and encompassed others from around the country like Jesus Jones and Mega City 4.

I think the C86 thing was more of a music press created label that made it easy to hang bands on a certain hook. I certainly never though of us as a C86 band.

Nick: I don’t think we felt a part of anything, really. We all had day jobs or in Paul’s case a university course to head home for. The post-gig parties passed me by, at any rate. A lot of opportunities were being squandered.

++ When and why did the band split?

Nick: Again, this is a Russ question. But we’d paid our money and had submitted master tapes and artwork for that 12 inch, when he phoned Mark Bellamy from a call box on some tour with Wolfsbane. He just become a father and was struggling to knit all the elements of his life together. So, the three remaining Libertines, Paul Clifford, mark Bellamy and myself tried to salvage something, just to try and promote this pile of records we found ourselves stuck with. But it wasn’t to be. Paul had to commit to his degree course, so he disappeared soon after. He never did finish that degree of course – as The Wonder Stuff recruited him shortly after.

Russ: I ran off to join the circus…I mean work full time for the Wonder Stuff…although the circus wouldn’t be a bad analogy ! Deb and I had had our son James and I needed regular money to support a family. The Stuffies were offering me a lot of that and I had to commit or miss out.

++ Looking back in time, what would you say was the biggest highlight for The Libertines?

Russ: releasing the record. It’s the one thing I’d always wanted to do, release a record that I was a part of and I did it.

Nick: I was playing in front of big appreciative audiences. that was a very good feeling. I’ve largely blocked out the humping of drums up three flights of stairs to my flat at 3am. My favourite gig was possibly Keele University, in Staffordshire in 1988. Brunel University on the same tour was also a blast – But going onstage at legendary Marquee Club… well, that takes some beating.

++ And if you were to pick a song of yours as your favourite, which one will it be and why?

Nick: There was a lovely downtempo song called ’Some Kinda Happy’. For me, it showed Russ’s voice up for the wonderful range he had. We played it at the Marquee, on Charring Cross Road and the stage was bathed in an eerie blue light… and everything was just perfect.

Russ: Nick will likely slap his forehead and shout “D’OH!” in frustration…but “Wolf!”…it rocks, it rolls, it swings and to this day I’m immensely proud of it.

++ Are you still part of the backline of The Wonder Stuff? How do you enjoy that?

Nick: Russ?

For years after I used to get guest passes to see them at Reading festival or the big London venues, so would catch up with the old times. But that was a previous life.

Russ: I am, in fact we just did 3 shows this past weekend. I do enjoy it but as I get older it gets tougher.

They are a bloody great live band so it’s a pleasure to be around them seeing them do their thing. As an addendum to why the Libertines split I’ve seen at first hand, being around the Wonder Stuff, what it takes to achieve the levels of success they have. It takes a focus and a drive and a sheer bloody minded force of will that I just don’t have, Miles must have inherited that trait in full. I’m not sure I could have done it.

++ And aside from music, do you have any other hobbies?

Russ: most people would say owning a record shop is a glorified hobby and doesn’t count as a job 😉 I also have 2 dogs (Whippets) who keep me pretty busy the rest of the time. And I do like a pint or several of real ale, fortunately the dogs like visiting the pub too 😉

Nick: I paint. Abstract canvases, mainly – but also more representational life drawing. It’s all online, if you know where to look. Oh blow it, here’s a link: Abstracts: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kidcalamity/albums/72157625756609731

Life Drawing: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kidcalamity/albums/72157625734263647

++ Nick, are you still in Birmingham or did you also move? Do you go back often Russ? Has Birmingham changed much since those days?

Nick: I never actually lived in Birmingham. I was in Redditch, a town some twenty miles south. I’ve since lived in Wolverhampton and London, before moving back up to the Midlands.

The Birmingham of the late 80s has all but disappeared. I was standing on the canal bridge we posed for photos on, a few months ago. In those days is was surrounded by deserted and dilapidated warehouses. These days it’s in the heart of Brindley Place, a thriving area of bistro bars, restaurants, the huge Barclaycard Arena, the Symphony Hall and Ikon Gallery. A revived and buzzing area!

My wife and I moved out to Shropshire, near the Welsh border in about 1995, after a long spell in north London. We were both employed by a design agency out here and have since set up our own

Russ: Nick’s out here in Shropshire. My wife and I moved to Telford in Shropshire 12 years ago expressly to get out of Birmingham. It’s 12 miles from Shrewsbury, a “new town” from the 1960’s but 5 minutes drive and you’re in the beautiful Shropshire countryside. I go back to Birmingham as little as possible, very occasionally to see my mother-in-law who still lives there. I was in the city in December with the Wonder Stuff and it’s changed so much it doesn’t feel like my hometown any more. I think I’m done with the big city, my ambitions are focussed on the Shropshire Hills and maybe, eventually the coast.

++ Tell me a bit about Shrewsbury then, never been there, what are the traditional things to see, eat or do?

Nick: Shrewsbury is very nice. It’s relatively unspoilt my modern development and even has cobbled pavements in the more quaint town centre! A couple of really on the ball promoters are currently trying to establish a little alternative scene, attracting psych bands to play a new theatre venue. But, as ever rubbish tribute bands seem to attract the larger audiences so get the gigs over the more creative bands.

Russ is out in Telford a more modern ‘new town’. I rarely venture over that way, except to rehearse and record with my own projects.

Strangely, we’ve not actually been tempted to arrange a reunion. Hmmm…

Russ: Shrewsbury is a beautiful old Medieval market town contained in a loop in the River Severn in Shropshire for which it is the county town. It has a castle, remains of Medieval town walls, fabulous independent retailers, a lively live music scene and a great theatre.

Shropshire is a large county in the west of England that butts up against the Welsh border, a mainly rural county with some of the most beautiful scenery you’ll encounter. But SHHHHHHHH, you can come visit but we don’t want the whole place overrun with tourists :-0

There’s an old saying back in Birmingham that “relocating to Shropshire is the end of all ambition” and I would guess Nick would agree with me when I say I have no real want to leave the ‘shire just yet 😉

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The Libertines – Wolf!